People Who Bring Weapons Into Night Clubs

[Vitamin-X]

Originally Posted by Goat

and the french, fuck them too.

Damn French, I knew they had something to do with this!


anyway...

I'd say that at least in some form music creates its own subculture.
Trying to say that this culture doesn't influence its participants is like trying to pretend that Sparta wasn't more militarily inclined than Athens.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by fable

Music does not produce consistent violent behaviour.

Music doesn't but G.Rap sure as fuck does.

You tryin to test me *****, you fuckin trippin ?

What set you claimin fool ?

MAWO !?

Mothafucka you better recognize bitch !

[-evil-duerr-]

^ edit: meant for vitamin-x

the thing wit that man. is that gangster hip hop isnt the only music with negative influences.

so heres a tale we can all relate with, that may shed a different light on this discussion for some

I started using drugs and becamse fascinated with the rave/party lifestyle at 13/14 years of age.
All throughout my teenaged years I ended up having to battle substance problems because at that time I thought it was an acceptable way to live.

At 21 I'm basically at the point of playin clean up crew for what i did in my teens but am pretty much all over all of it.

Not once did i blame Electronic Dance music, not once did I blame the Rave Scene.

like half the trance songs and shit that i was listening to at 14 were just names of drugs. lol.

I'm sure that whole scene was highly influential on some of my misconceptions about substance abuse at that age.

I never blamed the music for any of it tho.
Because when it came rigth down to it.
I WANTED TO DO WHAT I WAS GONNA DO, AND I WOULDA DONE IT ANYWAY. Just like these kids shooting guns around


Oh, and I listened to my fair share of snoop dog, tupac, and nwa as a youth, as did most of my friends.

I've yet to feel the urge to pop a cap in anyone. and trust it, I've had beefs.

[Lady Dame]

i have read through most of your thoughts..agree and disagree. The point that i think most of you are missing is the Generation gap.

"Of course we are! WE are partially products of our media environment, but I am also a product of my upbringing, my personal value systems and personal choices.."

We grew up with Carebears, Teddy Ruxbin and the raccoons.... girls were into Barbies and Boys into Lego.
Now little girls IDOLIZE these Bratz (wich only convey the entire Entity of Materialism and Greed)
and the boys start playing murder games at a drastically younger age then when we did, due to our parents having more control over our activities...and we would listen to our parents because we still feared them>
Children today, parents wave the dramatically high violent games due to it being the way of the times, and fear that their kids wont fit in because they dont have the latest Bullet 3D like real life hunting to kill games....

Media influences along with world violence are all creating this colourful shield over the eyes of our youth. Im not talking little 15 year old gangstahs that hang out at the Bus loops... Im talking when the Developmental stages in a childs life are at the highest molding and foundation level....parents have to work twice as many hours then they did 20 years ago...inflation has taken many parents out of the childrens lives, thus leaving them open and perceptive to things they shouldnt be seeing.
Family values are going down the drain.
why do you think more pre-teens are getting away with Stealing cars, BnE, and telling their Parents To Go to Hell.

What parents need to do is get the tent, grab the camp stove and take the kids out to the outdoors for some life to nature experience.

[Lady Dame]

..and back to the scene of the crime...

from never seeing anything like what i wittnessed in real life....it felt as though, because of media images, tv shows, movies and video game graphics...it was almost as if i had already been through it.
the ultimate Desensitisation.

...the only reality check...was having to wash off the blood. that was pretty fucking real.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Lady Dame

..and back to the scene of the crime...

from never seeing anything like what i wittnessed in real life....it felt as though, because of media images, tv shows, movies and video game graphics...it was almost as if i had already been through it.
the ultimate Desensitisation.

...the only reality check...was having to wash off the blood. that was pretty fucking real.

Real blood/brains/guts/corpses always make one realise their own mortality.

That's what fucked with me the most, seeing death made me think of my own mortality.

[Wood]

i dunno, i played with GI Joes & lots of toy guns as a kid, plus i listened to gangster rap from the age of 15 (pretty much as soon as it was commercially available outside the ghetto), and i've never been involved in any kind of violent crime or ever owned a firearm. On the flip side, i've known many kids who were raised by hippie parents, not allowed to play with guns & barbies, who went on to be involved in crime & violence. I think the conditions in which one is raised & the behavior of parents & other elders has a much greater influence than pop culture or the media. ie, if your parents teach you well & show you love as a child, a few toy guns & rap songs probably aren't going to make you a violent criminal. Whereas if your parents don't raise you responsibly, banning violent music & imagery isn't going to make up for a good upbringing.

[fable]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

Music doesn't but G.Rap sure as fuck does.

You tryin to test me *****, you fuckin trippin ?

What set you claimin fool ?

MAWO !?

Mothafucka you better recognize bitch !

hahaha, nice ones!

MAWO!??!?! Dont make me bust a cap in yo ass muthafucka!!!

But the choons at best are an actuator or ignitor for a more prevalet set of conditions that is the root of violent behaviour. For someone to lose their shit in violence behaviour as a result of music, g-rap or otherwise, one would have had to have been in a questionable state of mind already, and the conditions that lead to this, are far more important to consider.

[prozac]

Originally Posted by Wood

i dunno, i played with GI Joes & lots of toy guns as a kid, plus i listened to gangster rap from the age of 15 (pretty much as soon as it was commercially available outside the ghetto), and i've never been involved in any kind of violent crime or ever owned a firearm. On the flip side, i've known many kids who were raised by hippie parents, not allowed to play with guns & barbies, who went on to be involved in crime & violence. I think the conditions in which one is raised & the behavior of parents & other elders has a much greater influence than pop culture or the media. ie, if your parents teach you well & show you love as a child, a few toy guns & rap songs probably aren't going to make you a violent criminal. Whereas if your parents don't raise you responsibly, banning violent music & imagery isn't going to make up for a good upbringing.

my thoughts exactly.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

ART !?

Sorry Gangsta Rap is fucking mind numbing garbage, not art.

Umm, society stopped defining what is and what isn't art like, a century ago.

Where the fuck have you been?

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by fable

hahaha, nice ones!

MAWO!??!?! Dont make me bust a cap in yo ass muthafucka!!!

But the choons at best are an actuator or ignitor for a more prevalet set of conditions that is the root of violent behaviour. For someone to lose their shit in violence behaviour as a result of music, g-rap or otherwise, one would have had to have been in a questionable state of mind already, and the conditions that lead to this, are far more important to consider.

Can't argue with that.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Umm, society stopped defining what is and what isn't art like, a century ago.

Where the fuck have you been?

Try since Warhol, who was a ripped hippie.

Art conveys knowledge and a message.

Not soup can ads.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

Try since Warhol, who was a ripped hippie.

Art conveys knowledge and a message.

Not soup can ads.

Um, those weren't ads.

And uh, it's not about the soup can, it's about the idea to create an art from dozens of soup cans and the artist who had the idea to do it.

But really you have to be joking right?

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Um, those weren't ads.

And uh, it's not about the soup can, it's about the idea to create an art from dozens of soup cans and the artist who had the idea to do it.

But really you have to be joking right?

Do you really want turn this into an argument about art and hijack this whole thread ?

[Gusto]

it doesn't matter. there is no argument. there is such a thing as post modern art, whether you believe it or not. :P

[prozac]

I think this thread has already been well and fully hijacked.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

Art conveys knowledge and a message.

bullshit. no definition of the term 'art' stipulates that any knowledge or message be passed on. Fine if that's what art is to you, but that certainly is not applicable to art in general.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Gusto

it doesn't matter. there is no argument. there is such a thing as post modern art, whether you believe it or not. :P

Sure and there's also my garbage on the curb.

[Gusto]

garbage is subjective.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Wood

bullshit. no definition of the term 'art' stipulates that any knowledge or message be passed on. Fine if that's what art is to you, but that certainly is not applicable to art in general.

The job of the artist is always to deepen the mystery.

Sir Francis Bacon

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Gusto

garbage is subjective.

Garbage is art now according to pomo.

Therefore pomo is garbage.

[Gusto]

sir francis bacon died long before post modern. he was also a lawyer/scientist, not an artist.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Gusto

sir francis bacon died long before post modern. he was also a lawyer/scientist, not an artist.

Yes Bacon was many things and not just the 2 you proclaim.

Bacon was an artist.

So was Comte St.Germain.

[Gusto]

ok, maybe i'm wrong. but the point still stands that he is long outdated. you can't take a quote from that period and expect it to stand against modern art. anyway, yeah this is totally side tracked. i mean, i understand that you don't think certain things are art, but you must understand that most people don't agree with you.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Gusto

ok, maybe i'm wrong. but the point still stands that he is long outdated. you can't take a quote from that period and expect it to stand against modern art. anyway, yeah this is totally side tracked. i mean, i understand that you don't think certain things are art, but you must understand that most people don't agree with you.

In the art world there are those who are pomo and there are those that are artists.