societys view on death

[Courtney]

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[lildonkey]

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

Can you explain it a bit better?

[Courtney]

are u being serious or making fun of me\?

[lildonkey]

I'm being serious... if you can elaborate, I can share my view on the subject since it's something i'm familiar with..

[lildonkey]

I guess some people are like that... but when my friend passed away, we talked about him all the time... still go to his moms house on his birthday every year and have a party for him.... but i know what you mean.. some people get really weird when someone mentions the name of one of their friends that has passed away...

but death is a fucked up thing, and everyone deals with it differently...

[Courtney]

"when my friend passed away, we talked about him all the time"

you know what I mean?

[Courtney]

as opposed to "my friend passed away but we still talk about him all the time"

[Courtney]

its not direct family or friends Im really meaning though its moer societys view of it as a whole
I just wish the general attitude of death was more an open and caring one than a closed off apathetic one

[Revolver]

I know all to well what you are saying.

People do not like to be reminded of their own mortality or anything that could 'bring them down'.

I myself have made the mistake of looking to certain people for support and understanding when it comes to this and what a clusterfuck disaster that turned out to be.

It also helps you identify the real gems in your world.

Going through something like this is one the the GREATEST notches on the belt of life one can have. Take comfort in that and look within yourself rather then being overly dependent on other people for support(aside from your core group obv.)

[Courtney]

^exactly.. you reallly do find out the good ones..
talking to ppl who have actually experienced something total different than talking to ppl that are trying their hardest to put themselves there..just cant be done understandably
Although I went through a why me stage I honestly feel blessed in some ways... we really do have a key to this life that some people will never obtain, and it will open our minds and heart to a lot of wonderful things, it already has for me in some ways. That is one of the greatest gifts a father could ever give to their child :)

[diva]

Originally Posted by Courtney

Oh ok well its just one of those thing that just isn't talked about...its like when someone dies...after a week or two your supposed to get over it...and its as if they never existed..no one ever brings them up or talks about them, or asks you how you are doing. In my case for example its as if 8 months should be enough time to get over a lifetiem of memories. If you do bring it up ppl just look uncomfrotable and dont know what to say...and if anyone does bring anything up theyre super weary and uncomfortable. I think people need ot be more open I think memories are so important and just because someone is gone doesnt mean they should be forgotten. You can keep a persons spirit and legacy alive through the memories but i just feel liek society really puts a damper on that

I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing. I deal with death and dying at work, and while these are generalizations, I notice that different cultures deal with the issue differently.

[i'm not naming specific cultures because i don't want to be judgemental here]

Some cultures can't accept the fact that their family member is going to die and want every thing done to keep them alive--even if this means their loved one will NOT die with dignity. To me, this is a fear of death.

Other cultures can accept the fact that every thing has been done (within reason) and can let their loved one pass away with dignity.

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To expand on what Revolver said, some people avoid discussing things that make them feel uncomfortable. It can be anything, really, not just death and dying. It's really their issues, not yours, that are preventing them from being there for you. As soon as you try to accept this unfortunate major/minor flaw that most people have, you'll be able to maybe seek out or gravitate naturally toward more like minded individuals.

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And again, back to the cultural thing...Having lived mostly around non-African people, I was really quite amazed when I spent five weeks in Ghana this year to discover that people were very similar to me. Those weird tabboo "you shouldn't bring this stuff up because peoeple might get uncomfortable" or "you don't know this person well enough to be asking this they might get uncomfortable" questions/issues weren't tabboo there at all. If fact, for one of the first times ever, I was the one feeling uncomfortable with some of the questions I was asked and some of the topics of conversation that would be introduced. I thought, "Oh, wow. This must be a Ghanaian thing!"

So yeah, society pretty much decides this stuff I think...

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Courtney, have you ever been in the opposite situation? Where a friend had experienced a loss similar to the one you experienced? What did you do?

[oddmud]

Originally Posted by Courtney

its quite frustrating because I can't cahnge the view of others...

why the hell do you think it's your business to change the view of others anyways? let people deal with things the way they want to. a lot of people honour the dead in different ways. they don't necessarily need to talk about it, or talk about it with you.

death scares people cause it's the end of life. something they don't want to experience, regardless if they are fully aware that it's inevitable.

why the fuck do you think there is millions of religious fools out there? helps people cope with the fact they're going to die.

[Disco_Whore]

We have definitely lost our ability to mourn as a culture. A few hundred years ago, you had to wear different clothes for at least a year to signal that you were still in mourning and would be frowned upon if you changed back to normal too soon. We also mourned as a community, not just on the individual level which meant you had everyone to turn to.

If you find your friends aren't very good outlets, maybe you should try writing or expressing yourself some other way as a release? I find painting is the best thing ever for that. Even if you're not trying to make something 'look nice' but I just find smooshing colours out on canvas feels so good it's like therapy sometimes.

[tiedye]

Ah, apathy toward death is as much a shame as fearing it is. My views on death are as follows:

If everything is just energy, and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, then when someone dies, it is simply a transfer of energy. This isn't an excuse to just shrug off the death of others, but a solid belief in which one can embrace death and cherish it as part of a greater cycle.

This view helped immensely when my grandfather (who raised me most of my life) died a few months ago. I still talk about him - such an amazing presence such as he had could never be reduced to silence even in death - and I do so with pride and happiness.

[stringbeans]

just because people around you feel uncomfortable talking about the death of someone you knew, it doesn't mean its some horrible social attitude that needs to change.

its like if someone you knew with aids continuously brought up the disease during conversation. im sure you'd feel uncomfortable too.

[tiedye]

Originally Posted by stringbeans

its like if someone you knew with aids continuously brought up the disease during conversation. im sure you'd feel uncomfortable too.

Only if they kept cutting me off in mid-sentence to do so.

[Courtney]

Originally Posted by oddmud

why the hell do you think it's your business to change the view of others anyways? let people deal with things the way they want to. a lot of people honour the dead in different ways. they don't necessarily need to talk about it, or talk about it with you.

death scares people cause it's the end of life. something they don't want to experience, regardless if they are fully aware that it's inevitable.

why the fuck do you think there is millions of religious fools out there? helps people cope with the fact they're going to die.

Get back to me when you've lost someone close.

[Courtney]

Originally Posted by stringbeans

just because people around you feel uncomfortable talking about the death of someone you knew, it doesn't mean its some horrible social attitude that needs to change.

its like if someone you knew with aids continuously brought up the disease during conversation. im sure you'd feel uncomfortable too.

Believe me if god forbid you lost someone really close you would not be saying this right now

[Courtney]

Courtney, have you ever been in the opposite situation? Where a friend had experienced a loss similar to the one you experienced? What did you do?


Yeah I think about that a lot never any close close friends but I too have been on the other end of it (BEFORe my dad died) and my attitudes were definetely different. I hadn't exprienced it so I ws wierd about it too...perhas that is just how it is, unless you havent dealt with it directly you just can't have that understanding and thats the way it is- at least here. I mean i've dealt with the fact no one cares and have my own ways but I just find it strange since death is so important, thats all.

[miss.myra]

Courtney, I think your replies have answered this question for yourself. People cannot empathize the way you'd like them to because they haven't walked a mile in your shoes perhaps.

As a whole, I think that Canadaians or Westerners as a whole are uncomfortable in talking about things that are too risky, and that includes things that require us to show emotional investment - this sort of thing is reserved for immediate family, closed doors, and the like. I find that in many cases, someone who is too uncomfortable to talk about it is almost always willing to be supportive in some other way that we always don't notice. I'll be the first to admit I have a very hard time with dealing with other people's emotions (perhaps due to the way that I express and show them).

Additionally, with death it can also bring a lot of things into play regarding people's religious or spiritual beliefs which in our society is something that mostly exists on a 'don't ask, don't tell' basis, in fact it's even considered by many to be downright rude and inappopriate and unacceptable to outright express what you believe or ask someone else for them.

Eventually, you will need to trust and believe that even the closest people to you may never truly understand because they haven't been where you've been, even if they've lost someone close every situation and the feelings that result are unique and differ from person to person. I know that you have so much to deal with emotionally, and while your close ones can offer support, there are more appropriate parties that can help you make sense of everything in your head.

I also believe the #1 thing you need to let go of yourself is your belief that nobody cares because they are not showing support in the way you expect them to.

[tiedye]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I also believe the #1 thing you need to let go of yourself is your belief that nobody cares because they are not showing support in the way you expect them to.

Word. I find the best way for me to make someone feel better is to subtly improve their mood by taking their mind off of it while they're hanging out with me. Being the guy you can go to and have a good time with despite what's going on in your life is my way to support people. If they need to talk about it with me, that's cool... if they don't, then there's no reason they should have to dwell on it. Others don't necessarily see supporting a friend in the same light.

[brit]

I kind of get the feeling most people in this thread missed courtneys point.

I don't think she was concerned about how people deal with the deaths of their own friends and relatives but rather how your own friends, relatives, (schools and work places) react to YOU when YOU are going through a death in the immediate family unit.
Nobody is willing to talk to you about it or ask you how you are doing, I would assume from the fear that bringing it up will ruin your day. I think what people fail to realize is that if there is a death in the family, you are always thinking about it anyway.
The last time I went through the death of someone in my family, nobody in my life talked to me about it when they saw me or talked to me. I remember I went out to an event at waldorf a few weeks later and only two of my more distant friends had said anything, and i'll tell you it was helpful that they did, i apreciated it and it made me feel better not worse.
Now at school, I got zero sympathy, I was expected to write my mid terms the day after I returned home from the other side of the country. Except I wasn't as strong as Courtney has been I landed up flunking those mid terms and taking an Audit in my classes. If I could go back I would go above those instructors little heads.
Now relatives, relatives might aswell be strangers, especially in the cases of long drawn out deaths. Nobody has the time or concern for those, especially if it happens more then once in a family. Your whole unit is just kind of cut off as you'll bring people down, and it doesn't matter if they have all the money in the world flying out to see the person while they are still alive or to come to a funeral, too much of a pain in the butt.
I think what Courtney may be talking about isn't so much apathy of death, but apathy towards those going through it.

[Courtney]

exactly.

[Courtney]

and brit, I sriously don't know how I managed to pass last semester...I went back to school 2 weeks after my dad died- 4 classes..some were failry understanding but one of my teachers didn't give me an extension and failed me on my paper saying I plagerized which hey I probably did somewhat..someohow i manged to scrape by that class with a c-because i was studying through my tears...then i went to the school counsellor to talk about how absurd that teacher was and ow i probably deserved an I at least who said I shouldve dropped out right away and it was too late to talk to anyone because I "shouldve known earlier" sorry my head wasnt thinking straight..and in the end it is the teachers decisions ...fuck uu
I'm still planning on writing to the dean because the system is fucked and needs to give more leniance to people in that sort of situation

[Lush]

The best they'll do is give you a W on your transcript so it won't affect your GPA, I had to withdraw last semester because I got REALLY sick and it was amazing the lengths I had to go to so they would even consider not failing me and giving me a withdraw instead.
I had to provide them with a page long letter from my family doctor and a letter where I had to describe all the medication I was on, what I was sick with etc. They did approve though finally and I got the withdraw.
Apparently if someone close to you dies you have to provide them with a death certificate which is so brutal considering the state they're already but it's worth a shot.