people in prison

[Courtney]

you know sometimes I really do feel for criminals...I just read some stuff on facebook in regards to that guy in kelowna..Everyone always deems these people as monsters but I think in a lot of these cases its just a big mistake they've made. It is crazy how one choice can affect your life so much, I can't imagine living with that amount of guilt ( I realize not all do)but for that do feel the guilt it must be a tough thing to lvie with..and this leads me to my question...
what do you think about free education in prisons? I'm sure many are against it but I kindof thing its beneficial more so for the rest of society than the individuals in there

[tiedye]

Free education in prison is wonderful, in my opinion. You're giving people a chance to improve themselves without asking anything of them save that they try. It costs a lot of money to keep someone imprisoned; I'd be willing to bet that an man educated in his first round through prison is less likely to become a recidivist.

[lildonkey]

When people go into prison, they come out a bigger criminal then when they went in. It's like a criminals heaven for networking and learning new things..

[mapleleaf4ever]

They should get education if they are receptive to that. If not, as far as I'm concerned they should build a low-medium security level prison in Resolute Bay. They misbehave they can get solitary with no lock on the door behind the jail. You run away, you freeze like a spitball in the -50 plus windchill.

Good plan. The thought of being shipped up within a 3 hour flight of the North Pole oughta curb crime a bit.

[Some dude]

Free education and reinstate corporal punishment. Nothing says "you fucked up" like a good public lashing.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

If the gov made education free for ALL PEOPLE then we wouldnt have as many socio economic problems. People wouldnt be living in poverty,children wouldnt be put in harmful situations because thier parent(s) were financially unable to provide them with a better environment. Youth at risk wouldnt be at as much of a risk, when youth arent at risk it decreases the chances of them becoming adult offenders. If the numbers in adult offenders decreases then the number of repeat offenders would decrease even more.

Itd be a domino effect that would benefit everyone within our society.

[tiedye]

Originally Posted by lildonkey

When people go into prison, they come out a bigger criminal then when they went in. It's like a criminals heaven for networking and learning new things..

That comes down to personal choice. Two of my family members have both graduated highschool and gone through college while in jail and now they are supporting their families off of what they walked out with.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

If the gov made education free for ALL PEOPLE then we wouldnt have as many socio economic problems. People wouldnt be living in poverty,children wouldnt be put in harmful situations because thier parent(s) were financially unable to provide them with a better environment. Youth at risk wouldnt be at as much of a risk, when youth arent at risk it decreases the chances of them becoming adult offenders. If the numbers in adult offenders decreases then the number of repeat offenders would decrease even more.

Itd be a domino effect that would benefit everyone within our society.

Really? How many people drop out of high school? That's a free education.

It would help society, but it's not the way to make a utopia.

[tiedye]

It's not a utopian solution by any means, but it's a start.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Really? How many people drop out of high school? That's a free education.

It would help society, but it's not the way to make a utopia.

ok,why do they drop out?for a number of reasons usually based around a dysfunctional family unit.One of the common denominators for a dysfunctional family is lack of income due to little to no education.

If the government made education for everyone free, and started teaching youth trades at say age 14 then it would only benefit society.
Knowledge is power right?By making knowledge inaccessible youre keeping power over your citizens, which has created a huge imbalance.

If the government was for the people they would be for education.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

ok,why do they drop out?for a number of reasons usually based around a dysfunctional family unit.One of the common denominators for a dysfunctional family is lack of income due to little to no education.

If the government made education for everyone free, and started teaching youth trades at say age 14 then it would only benefit society.
Knowledge is power right?By making knowledge inaccessible youre keeping power over your citizens, which has created a huge imbalance.

If the government was for the people they would be for education.

A lot of people just lack the direction/dedication to attend post secondary. I know tons of people where I grew up and could have had their education paid for, but didn't.

Hey, I would have loved free post secondary. I paid for my education myself, by working my ass off. But it's a very unrealistic idea in our current society. Countries like Sweden can pull this off because their income tax is about 75%...

[Ragga_Wh0re]

^yeah thats true, but i beleive teachers fail to engage budding minds in elementary and secondary schools which makes it not so user friendly. What can we attribute that to?Not enough tax dollars put towards schools that would decrease class sizes and make the learning process more intimate for attendees.

I think its silly to place blame in its entirity on the pupil,the government needs to be held accountible and something drastic needs to be done in order for children and families to benefit.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

I think its silly to place blame in its entirity on the pupil,the government needs to be held accountible and something drastic needs to be done in order for children and families to benefit.

I agree in part, but I put more accountability on the student. If you have the drive to learn, it's hard to hold you back. But if you are lazy, even with smaller class sizes you'll be slacking.

An overhaul of the education system is needed, but free post secondary would be wasted in this country.

[Disco_Whore]

Prison is a bizarre system, and I've got 2 basic pov.

On the one hand you've got those people who are only going to be further socially crippled by the experience, and whose potential is completely stifled. Reintegration into society should be the end goal.

On the other hand there are complete sickos that I would rather see castrated.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

I agree in part, but I put more accountability on the student. If you have the drive to learn, it's hard to hold you back. But if you are lazy, even with smaller class sizes you'll be slacking.

An overhaul of the education system is needed, but free post secondary would be wasted in this country.

thats where teaching teens trades comes in!but during secondary school.If theyre learning a skilled trade while in secondary school, they can grad and be in a career where theyll be making a comfortable salary out the gate. that would help solve the shortage of skilled tradespeople that BC is currently facing.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by Disco_Whore

Prison is a bizarre system, and I've got 2 basic pov.

On the one hand you've got those people who are only going to be further socially crippled by the experience, and whose potential is completely stifled. Reintegration into society should be the end goal.

On the other hand there are complete sickos that I would rather see castrated.

i agree, however chemical or surgical casteration does not solve the problem for skin offenders. Its in the mind. I think pedophiles and rapists should be kept inside for life with no possibility of parole. these people cant be rehabilitated, and thier victims lives will never be the same so why the fuck should they be given a second chance?

I dont understand.

[tiedye]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

thats where teaching teens trades comes in!but during secondary school.If theyre learning a skilled trade while in secondary school, they can grad and be in a career where theyll be making a comfortable salary out the gate. that would help solve the shortage of skilled tradespeople that BC is currently facing.

They offer that as an elective these days.

[SEAN!]

having to share showers with a guy like this is punishment enough.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by tiedye

They offer that as an elective these days.

when i was in HS they had like what?wood working and like auto shop?oh and home ec?They need to teach kids how to be stone masons and electricians.

[tiedye]

They offer trades as an elective now. They take up like 16 of the credits you need to graduate. Up here, kids have the option to take Heavy Duty Operator, Heavy Duty Mechanic, and Electrician trades.. those are just the ones I'm aware of.

[brit]

This 'everyone should be able to pull themselves up by their own boot straps because I did' attitude is exactly the kind of thoughtless bullshit that is destroying this country. Growing up, I always thought of Canada as being a kind society, interested in the welfare of all, and that our attitudes and beliefs coincided with helping one another. As i've gotten older and more and more of my peers have come back at me with these types of statements, all I can do is shake my head and fear for the future.

Education should be provided, it's a no-brainer.

If we are talking of the case of Trevor Shannon in Kelowna, the facebook group is a little thought provoking because of the nature of the group, 'Free Trev-1', i'm not sure he should be free. I knew Trevor and I feel terrible that he is in the position he is in, but I have to feel more for the family of the kid he shot. He might have been in a position where he felt threatened, but carrying a loaded weapon can only lead to someone getting hurt and he has to take responsibility for that. I think most of the people in that group have heard the same types of explanations that i've heard since it happened, 'that he was swarmed, being beaten by a group at the time'. After reading the newspaper articles the evidence doesn't appear to support that.
That said, I do think he deserves support and understanding. If he were offered a chance to get some schooling while inside it might help him to understand the gravity of what he has done and perhaps what lead him in his life to be in the position he finds himself.
I think more then leading to a job or career, education for criminals would be about giving them the tools to see their mistakes and rise above them. I think sending people back out into the world 5,10,15 years later with minds full of anger and no skills or ability to make good decisions is dangerous for our public.
I want to live in a country where we take care of our people, in good times and in bad.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

thats where teaching teens trades comes in!but during secondary school.If theyre learning a skilled trade while in secondary school, they can grad and be in a career where theyll be making a comfortable salary out the gate. that would help solve the shortage of skilled tradespeople that BC is currently facing.

Interestingly enough, I was actually taught trades in High School with some special program that my school had.

It was a great way to learn, but in the end only half the people who took it, still work in that trade. I myself left after working as a draftsman for a year realizing it just wasn't my thing.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

^thats a given.I think the average canadian changes thier career like 6 times in thier life?

Its not a matter of sticking it with it until you die(thats unrealistic), its a matter of gaining experience and using that as a platform.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

^thats a given.I think the average canadian changes thier career like 6 times in thier life?

Its not a matter of sticking it with it until you die(thats unrealistic), its a matter of gaining experience and using that as a platform.

Ah, I should clarify a bit, the last time I saw these people was a year after we graduated the program. So within a year, half of them didn't work in that field.

The point I'm trying to make is, their are currently the tools to attend post secondary if you are interested in it. You will have to get into debt though. Even if post secondary was free, which for a lot of people due to wealthy parents it is, many people don't attend post secondary. Even fewer succeed in their post secondary education as well.

It's an interesting problem that society will always have. You can give people the tools to succeed, but often people won't utilize them.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Courtney

you know sometimes I really do feel for criminals...I just read some stuff on facebook in regards to that guy in kelowna..Everyone always deems these people as monsters but I think in a lot of these cases its just a big mistake they've made. It is crazy how one choice can affect your life so much, I can't imagine living with that amount of guilt ( I realize not all do)but for that do feel the guilt it must be a tough thing to lvie with..and this leads me to my question...
what do you think about free education in prisons? I'm sure many are against it but I kindof thing its beneficial more so for the rest of society than the individuals in there

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