Does Jesus hate yoga?

[Courtney]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

i think that's an obscene oversimplification and i don't think it's accurate at all.




anything can be beneficial to some people. genocide is beneficial to some people. people's lack of a sense of belonging isn't a failure of secularism. and i find it disgusting how churches will prey on these people. like i've said before, that sense of belonging isn't exclusive to religious belief. there is in fact no intrinsic association other than it's a social grouping.

Yes but the difference is religion often has ideas such as heaven/afterlife/spirits type stuff, as well as like confessing sins and stuff
you can't just say its no different than any other social group
I'm pretty much on your side in that I'm not into religion but your not being very objective your religion seems to be extreme "atheism"
Just like religion, your argument is not without flaw so I don't think your one to judge

over and out.

[kir mokum]

you're right. religion is not like any other social group. at no point did i say they were. the "ideas such as heaven/afterlife/spirits type stuff, as well as like confessing sins and stuff" is not to religion's merit and has no intrinsic value.

i have no religion. i'm open to any valid and/or compelling idea. i keep hearing about these flaws in my argument (and i'm sure they're there) but no one can seem to point them out. and i'm begging someone to do so. don't give me this "you're mean therefore you must be wrong" shit if you have nothing to back it up with. argue the points. take a real position and back it up.

as far as being objective, i would say i am fairly objective and maybe that's where the problem lies. i'm looking at it objectively and i can find no inherent value in contemporary religious belief. if anyone cares to point this out, give'r tits.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

i don't find it very prudent to lump atheists together or to imply that it's a philosophical movement since the only binding tenet is non-belief/scepticism, but i agree. any smart atheist will tell you that they don't know. the non-believers that i like are vehement about everything else. basically the destructive and divisive culture that contemporary religions (especially abrahamic) create. dawkins, hitchenson, and dennet, from what i've seen, have no problem with someone believing in god(s) but they feel the right to challenge the beliefs and especially the culture surrounding it much as you would any idea.

in my experience theist/atheist discussions rarely revolve around if there's a god or not but whether the particular mythology surrounding the theist's belief's are valid/accurate/true/whatever. the "is there a god" discussion is very difficult because there's no proof either way and logic/philosophy will only go so far so it's generally a stand off. however, the mythologies are so DnD ridiculous that it's hard to comprehend any thinking person to buy into it. even if there is a god and even if jesus was his son/himself EVERYTHING else is so ludicrous and illogical it just falls apart with any amount of scrutiny. personally, i think that's why the "personal jesus" and the ideological cherry picking is so abundant in religion. i think people feel a certain amount of obligation, from their cultural upbringing, that they need to believe in religion x but they strip away as little of the nonsense as they can muster and still feel it makes any amount of sense.

i don't know if there's a god and i think it's a moot point either way. what i do know is that contemporary religion and it's culture is fucked up and we would be better off with it relegated to the fringes of society.

If it werent religion it would be something else....like hockey,or reality TV. Religion isnt whats bad, its peoples interpretations of it,peoples egos. Religion isnt the common denominator...people are. And thats what youre failing to see, and thats what debunks your arguement completely.

What benefit would ousting religion be to society?I am failing to see that there would be one because one thing would remain the same...the people. Without guidance or influence things would implode.People need sructure, religion provides that. What would take its place that would be more productive?

Is religion really a cultural obligation or a scientific one?Wouldnt it be safe to say that its encoded in our DNA to NEED faith...to seek it? Dare ir reference the solfeggio scale?

Its beyond physical...perhaps metaphysical?Be it abrahamic or otherwise,religion and spirituality is more then God and mytholigies...its a science where little is known of it but the proof is astounding to those that are receptive enough to see it.

[Veni*C]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

i'm still hoping veni will drop some intellectual bombs on me.

sorry i had better things to do on a friday night ... like have a life.


ill get back to you soon though! :)

[SEAN!]

As for religion my parents did not raise me in any particular religion because of familial tragedies that have occured and can be attributed to the black/white thinking of devoutness. I would label my early religious teachings as unitary christian condusted by avowed agnostic parents.


I dont really have a religion righ now, but I am a buddhist its more of a philosophy and guiding principle for me then anything. Which is what I think all religion should be in a very complex modern existence.

now for a sermon:
like fo'real son, neggahs cant be strictly following some two g year old stone shit when we all be coppin ipods and working on some shit that joseph be calling magic. If we be following that shit, even the contrary joints were all probably reduce our life expectancy's to 35. i dont think a supposed mufuckah who gives us life, would want us to live in a way that reduces it's length or would want us to be miserable.

[Veni*C]

sean.... your the shit. fo reals.

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

If it werent religion it would be something else....like hockey,or reality TV. Religion isnt whats bad, its peoples interpretations of it,peoples egos. Religion isnt the common denominator...people are. And thats what youre failing to see, and thats what debunks your arguement completely.

no, i'm not. that's one of my many problems with contemporary religion is that it denies human nature. i would argue it also denies natural law. the abrahamic religious tenets of homogeneity are antithetical to life. and even if religion is good, but people are bad then religion is still fucked because it can only manifest it's self through people. religion is not independent of people and is not something we discovered (like math) but created and developed. it's an archaic intellectual prosthetic for humans.

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

What benefit would ousting religion be to society?I am failing to see that there would be one because one thing would remain the same...the people. Without guidance or influence things would implode.People need sructure, religion provides that. What would take its place that would be more productive?

there doesn't need to be a separate ideological entity that needs to "take it's place". it's place is superfluous. social structure will happen on it's own. this is a universal fact. people don't need guidance. i know every part of you feels otherwise, but this is also a fact. and really, religion provides little to no guidance anyway. what little guidance is there is either (arguably) bad guidance or simply ignored. there's no evidence that religious people live any better lives in anyway than secular people. actually, i would guess religious people are less happy than secular and statistics suggest that the religious are much more violent and amoral people. i'll be the first to say that the statistical suggestion is skewed but the religious FAR out way the secular in prison. much more than they outweigh them outside of prison.

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

Is religion really a cultural obligation or a scientific one?

it's neither. unless by cultural obligation you're saying that the main reason anyone follows a religion is because of a social/cultural obligation to do so. but that doesn't follow the other option of a scientific obligation, which is insane, so no to both.

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

Wouldnt it be safe to say that its encoded in our DNA to NEED faith...to seek it?

no. it would not be safe at all. in fact it would be insane. don't conflate religious faith with faith or a pervasive "parasitic meme" with a need for it.

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

Dare ir reference the solfeggio scale?

no. fuck off with that shit.

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

Its beyond physical...perhaps metaphysical?Be it abrahamic or otherwise,religion and spirituality is more then God and mytholigies...its a science where little is known of it but the proof is astounding to those that are receptive enough to see it.

you obviously do not know what science is.

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Veni*C

sorry i had better things to do on a friday night ... like have a life.

.lol.

[Courtney]

There is a god and when you die, you go to heaven. It is as simple as that. End of story. Now that wouldn’t make for a very good philosophy paper now would it? My point with that entrance was just to show what was instilled at me and I’m sure many other children in this country from a very young age. Though my mom was never an extreme religious type, she was an occasional church goer. This meant I would also attend on occasions such as Christmas. Of course, being a young child I didn’t have the mental capacity to know what church really was or what attending it even meant. With age of course, I realize that my mother’s presence as well as mine represented a belief in a set religion, in our case this being Christianity. So I grew up and I think about what those church visits meant to me and I cant really say that they benefited me at all. Except of course in informing me of what really goes on In a Christian church. I may not know what goes on in other churches but at least now I have a general sense of what goes on in these ones and my experience with it directly may be why I am not so keen. There are two main issues I have when it comes to religion, the first which is a common argument amongst many people is whether or not god exists. By god I mean the higher power of a set religion, I know that is the Christian term but it is the one I am most accustomed to so bare with me. My second argument when it comes to religion which I feel is a necessary one that should be asked more often is is it right to impose ones religion on others, primarily on their own children? Before dealing with my main question which is the very existence of god and its validity, I am going to express why regardless of whether or not an individual believes in religion, they should not impose this belief on others, my main focus on their children. Why you ask? Because, that is just a form of brain washing, in teaching your children to believe in something just because you yourself believe in it you are purely making a mini clone of yourself. Not only that,you are instilling in them something that has the power to change their life in a huge way, and you have no idea whether the effects will be positive or not. I am not saying people should not even introduce their children to organized religion or on the opposite end, evolution. I mean if a parent believes so passionately in something it is only fair that they be given the choice to let their children know of it right?. What I am saying however is that people should offer their children more than one option. How can a child become a knowledgeable and intelligent human being when all they are offered is a small piece of the puzzle. And I must mention especially when that piece of the puzzle might not even be true. Why not Show your kids that yeah this is what I believe but this is wat else is out there, and you can make you own choice about which one you want to believe, or not. So now I’ve gotten that out of my system,



I’m gonna move on to what I find most important question concerning religion and that is… the very main question of whether or not it is true or false? My answer to that is a simple, I have no idea! But, I will not So here it goes, all facts and signs I have been dealt with lead me to believe When it comes down to it and I really think about It there is no reason for me to show any signs of believing in religion. So, I wonder why I do not claim to be an athiast. Well, I mean, say god really does exist and I’ve spent my whole life claiming he is just a myth. Well, if he’s real then chances are the whole hell thing is real and I really don’t want to take that risk I’m sure atheists would look at me and think I am a bit strange, I mean who would alter their whole belief system so as not to upset a figure of a “myth”. But at the same rate, religious people would probably look at me and think I was just as strange for not being a whole hearted believer in it.

Just as it is to me, religion is a puzzling thing for many people in today’s society, more specifically in Vancouver. I have found through talking to friends and colleagues that unlike back a few centuries ago, where the predominant answer to “Do you believe in god?” was a definite Yes, the answers are now less and less sure. Most people I know are similar to me in that they either don’t believe in anything, or if they do, they don’t know what or to what extent their belief goes. I think the reason for such discrepancy is due to science. I mean, everybody knows that science is fact and if something is tested and proven, and then it has to be true? Well, evolutuin is a definite scientific theory but it is just that, a theory. See, if something is present today it has much more scientific validity because it is present and can be tested currently. In the book “Finding Darwin’s God” even a scientist brings up that although evolution is a backed up scientific theory, there are still issues with it in its validity. This is not to say that it is not a good theory, and what seems to be the closest to the “truth” of where humans have come from. But the problem with it, which I consider quite huge is the fact that it is not currently testable. Science is based on hypothesis that one can test and then either accept or reject . However, since (as humans)we are only alive and present and have yet to come up with a way to turn back time, there is no way for us to truly see how the world once was. We can only look at the evidence we do have and come up with educated assumptions. Kind of a stray away from the science I have always learned if you ask me. It is human nature to want to see something up and personal for us to actually know that it is happening. I personally believe in evolution much more than I believe in religion but in a way it is depressing to do so. I can fully understand why people around the world still belive in religion. I mean, who wants to believe that there is nothing else out there for us?

[kir mokum]

sounds like pascal's wager got to you.

if you don't believe in god, then you're technically and atheist. if you don't think that it can ever be known whether there is a god or not, then you're an agnostic. most atheists are also agnostic.

i highly suggest watching the daniel dennett video i posted. it's long and dry, but it's really good and he's not a dick like me.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

ummm ok so lets completely deny the fact that certain frequencies from the solfeggio scale have been used for decades to repair dna?

Pretty sure the solfeggio scale is sciene albeit divine,its proven that it exists on many levels. But Ill just "fuck off with that shit".

also youre the one who said that religion was a cultural obligation I simply reiterated that fact and countered it with another theory that can be proven through...THE SOLFEGGIO SCALE. :)

Social structure will happen on its own, yes but if people arent convinced that there is something more how stable will that structure be? People do need guidance, if they did not they would not need companions or family.So Im not entirely sure where youre getting that fact from? As for inmates turning to the lord in prison...its just that...turning to the lord in prison. 9 times out of 10 they werent reading the good book before they were incarcerated so the point of you stating that is irrelevant and ignorant really.

Religion does not deny human nature, I dont know if youve read the bible or not but theres a shit load of human nature a gwann there. Religion encourages the development of a healthy relationship between fellow man and earth, its what man does with that doctrine which fucks it up. Religion manifests itself through every living entity(more so in eastern religions or paganism), not just through people. As for it being antithetical to life? Hardly, and Im very sorry that you see it that way. Maybe once youve witnessed the gift of life youll be able to understand, I know for myself thats all it took.

:)

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by Courtney

There is a god and when you die, you go to heaven. It is as simple as that. End of story. Now that wouldn’t make for a very good philosophy paper now would it? My point with that entrance was just to show what was instilled at me and I’m sure many other children in this country from a very young age. Though my mom was never an extreme religious type, she was an occasional church goer. This meant I would also attend on occasions such as Christmas. Of course, being a young child I didn’t have the mental capacity to know what church really was or what attending it even meant. With age of course, I realize that my mother’s presence as well as mine represented a belief in a set religion, in our case this being Christianity. So I grew up and I think about what those church visits meant to me and I cant really say that they benefited me at all. Except of course in informing me of what really goes on In a Christian church. I may not know what goes on in other churches but at least now I have a general sense of what goes on in these ones and my experience with it directly may be why I am not so keen. There are two main issues I have when it comes to religion, the first which is a common argument amongst many people is whether or not god exists. By god I mean the higher power of a set religion, I know that is the Christian term but it is the one I am most accustomed to so bare with me. My second argument when it comes to religion which I feel is a necessary one that should be asked more often is is it right to impose ones religion on others, primarily on their own children? Before dealing with my main question which is the very existence of god and its validity, I am going to express why regardless of whether or not an individual believes in religion, they should not impose this belief on others, my main focus on their children. Why you ask? Because, that is just a form of brain washing, in teaching your children to believe in something just because you yourself believe in it you are purely making a mini clone of yourself. Not only that,you are instilling in them something that has the power to change their life in a huge way, and you have no idea whether the effects will be positive or not. I am not saying people should not even introduce their children to organized religion or on the opposite end, evolution. I mean if a parent believes so passionately in something it is only fair that they be given the choice to let their children know of it right?. What I am saying however is that people should offer their children more than one option. How can a child become a knowledgeable and intelligent human being when all they are offered is a small piece of the puzzle. And I must mention especially when that piece of the puzzle might not even be true. Why not Show your kids that yeah this is what I believe but this is wat else is out there, and you can make you own choice about which one you want to believe, or not. So now I’ve gotten that out of my system,



I’m gonna move on to what I find most important question concerning religion and that is… the very main question of whether or not it is true or false? My answer to that is a simple, I have no idea! But, I will not So here it goes, all facts and signs I have been dealt with lead me to believe When it comes down to it and I really think about It there is no reason for me to show any signs of believing in religion. So, I wonder why I do not claim to be an athiast. Well, I mean, say god really does exist and I’ve spent my whole life claiming he is just a myth. Well, if he’s real then chances are the whole hell thing is real and I really don’t want to take that risk I’m sure atheists would look at me and think I am a bit strange, I mean who would alter their whole belief system so as not to upset a figure of a “myth”. But at the same rate, religious people would probably look at me and think I was just as strange for not being a whole hearted believer in it.

Just as it is to me, religion is a puzzling thing for many people in today’s society, more specifically in Vancouver. I have found through talking to friends and colleagues that unlike back a few centuries ago, where the predominant answer to “Do you believe in god?” was a definite Yes, the answers are now less and less sure. Most people I know are similar to me in that they either don’t believe in anything, or if they do, they don’t know what or to what extent their belief goes. I think the reason for such discrepancy is due to science. I mean, everybody knows that science is fact and if something is tested and proven, and then it has to be true? Well, evolutuin is a definite scientific theory but it is just that, a theory. See, if something is present today it has much more scientific validity because it is present and can be tested currently. In the book “Finding Darwin’s God” even a scientist brings up that although evolution is a backed up scientific theory, there are still issues with it in its validity. This is not to say that it is not a good theory, and what seems to be the closest to the “truth” of where humans have come from. But the problem with it, which I consider quite huge is the fact that it is not currently testable. Science is based on hypothesis that one can test and then either accept or reject . However, since (as humans)we are only alive and present and have yet to come up with a way to turn back time, there is no way for us to truly see how the world once was. We can only look at the evidence we do have and come up with educated assumptions. Kind of a stray away from the science I have always learned if you ask me. It is human nature to want to see something up and personal for us to actually know that it is happening. I personally believe in evolution much more than I believe in religion but in a way it is depressing to do so. I can fully understand why people around the world still belive in religion. I mean, who wants to believe that there is nothing else out there for us?

when I was a child I went to Christian church until the age of 8. At that point in time I stopped going and started to read about other religions because I was angry with God. My mom was nothing but supportive of me trying to figure out what was right for me spiritually.

By the time I was 10 I had a few interesting things happen to me which made me understand that God was very real and did not function in the capacity I had once given him credit/blame for. I rekindled by relationship with God but did not feel it necessary to go worship in a church because I understand the politics of the church and the virtual uselessness of it.

Church=useless.
religion does not. You think that religion exists only within a church, but it does not. It exists wherever your heart beats,really. Because people are only accustomed to religion existing within the confines of a church they get turned off and shy away from spirituality and faith.

Thus becoming faithless. Preconcieved notions and a not so user friendly system leaves the door open for deception and decreases ones sensitivity and receptivity to experiencing divinity. If you truely understood how God works you would be able to acknowledge his presence (although not asked for) at every point in your life. We become anesthetized with capitalist dreams and theories of evolution and fostering a tollerant society,along the way youre selling yourself to something that really does not matter.

What I call God, you might call luck...or fate. I have no way of proving to you that he exists as thats an experience you will have one day on your own. I hope.

[Courtney]

^ if god existed, my dad wouldn't have died how and when he did

[Courtney]

I have my own religion,
its called smoke weed when u feel like relaxing

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

like fo'real son, neggahs cant be strictly following some two g year old stone shit when we all be coppin ipods and working on some shit that joseph be calling magic. If we be following that shit, even the contrary joints were all probably reduce our life expectancy's to 35. i dont think a supposed mufuckah who gives us life, would want us to live in a way that reduces it's length or would want us to be miserable.

AMEN!

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Courtney

I have my own religion,
its called smoke weed when u feel like relaxing

This is relevant to my interests, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by Courtney

^ if god existed, my dad wouldn't have died how and when he did

when youre done being angry God will still be there. I promise.

[diva]

This thread needs some Christopher Hitchens YouTube vids....

[ppcock]

hey let's go looking for Noah's ark.

and while we're at it.. how bout we look for the fuckin Snuffleupagus...

[Gusto]

dude we already know snuffleupagus is on sesame street, maybe you would have learned that in college.

[ppcock]

cross threading!?
come on Ryan.. that's not cool.

but it totally would've made you look lysdexic if you had put this on the other thread.

[Gusto]

i call it thinking outside of the box

[ppcock]

oh man.. i just thought of a better response..
the time has passed though :(

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by diva

This thread needs some Christopher Hitchens YouTube vids....

totally unrelated, but hilarious. will probably offend people of lower self confidence:






The Four Horsemen. Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens part 1
The Four Horsemen. Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens part 2

[Courtney]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

when youre done being angry God will still be there. I promise.

sorry but i just dont see that happening- like ever!