The Rave Scene Is Dead and No One Cares

[automatic]

Originally posted by butterfly
In my utmost humble opinion, this is a VERY SORE subject for me. But really what is a rave? Have we ever been able to have a rave in this city without cops, overpriced venues, chaos etc??? No.

ummm, yeah, as a matter of fact we have, tons of them.....raving didn't start in 98, the first "rave" that i can remember in Vancouver was Crave in 1991. I'd call that the first "rave" because that was the first party modeled after the movement in the UK in Vancouver. It was the first to use a brightly coloured flyer with "rave" graphics, the first party to top-bill electronica at a time when the club scene mainly played top 40 or "alternative" (there wasn't even a house night until after that). It was also around this time that mdma suddenly became popular, before that it was mainly speed, acid and mda in the club scene. Parties like Startrip, NuttaButta, Superpop, Land of the Pharoahs, and dozens of other were thrown around vancouver and in the city proper, often in broken-in warehouses, or odd venues like a school in Richmond, empty medical offices, there was even a massive new years eve party thrown in the Woodwards building one year (Epoch). These weren't small 200 people parties either, some of them were equal to or bigger than plaza parties today. The cops didn't know what to do about it really back then, and unless there was a noise complaint they often didn't find the party until they saw a stream of people all leaving at the same time clogging up the streets. now they check message boards and pick up flyers.

Originally posted by butterfly
Not in the mainstream sense. The reality is our scene is unique in that it is developing into something different from any other place in the world. I think it is better to embrace the diversity of talent and music that flows through this city's veins than worry if we measure up to places like the UK etc. There are no raves in Europe. They have festivals and the club scene rages wildly.
We are growing.....it is happenning. Don't freak out. You will miss the good stuff going on right now.

what happens in our city is unique on the surface level, in the same way that dayton ohio is unique from cleveland ohio, but to suppose that the kind of parties we throw and the things that happen here are somehow entirely different from everywhere else in the world is probably wrong. i think you'd find that pretty much anywhere in north america has a scene that consists of both above ground commercialized raves that feature bland talent, cookie cutter productions, etcx... and a small scene of dedicated individuals throwing semi-legal or illegal smaller parties...

there will always be underground parties, but as for massives the simple fact is that what was once an underground movement has become bastardized and commercialized to the point where it's simply an extension of the regular business life of the city, run for profit.. safe talent, safe productions, boring parties. name me one party at the plaza, other than kiss, that featured a line-up that could really be called challenging.

as for the scene itself, any 14 year old can walk in to le chateaus and walk out a raver for 120$ just like they could walk out a hip-hopper or a goth or a preppy. you no longer have to look hard ot find it, and that in itself is kind of a shame.

not that there aren't good things going on that could be considered massives, i have a feeling apex will be huge, and having that many local djs showcased is a good thing, but the days of the large party with innovative production and risky talent may have just died with rhythm nation.

to me, THAT was a rave, more than anything that has happened in years.

fuck i could talk more other things, like about how when raving first started it would have been almost unthinkable to find more than a couple people under 16 at a party, but i'm bored

rave is dead, let's make something new.

[Goat]

please refer to my previous post.

[bren]

the scene will always come in waves


i think its a calm before the storm

we just had a huge storm from 98-01

bren

[automatic]

Originally posted by Goat
please refer to my previous post.

i did. i'm glad that you're keeping the vibe alive, and yes, plur still exists, but the large aboveground parties themselves.....have degenerated for the most part into same-old-same-old cookie cutter cash grabs. everyone seems to be afraid to bring in anything more challenging than the same old b-circuit trance djs as headliners, and when a party that does feature an amazing line-up of talent like rhtyhm nation can only sell 300 tickets that tells me a lot about the true state of the big rave scene. it's not like rhythm nation wasw even that expensive compared to what you might see at the plaza...it soedn't help that to throw a big rave legally is now RIDICULOUSLY expensive and therefore the sole arena for major money....who'd want to try and do something innovative creative or risky when hundreds of thousands of dollars are on the line?

[RJay]

Even the top new school promoters (AGRO) can't get any support when they go to the effort to bring in one of the best line ups to EVER hit Vancouver. Now more than ever it seems every little snot thinks they should be VIP for some unknown reason... [/b]

You took the words out of my mouth buddy...The RN situation is something I would of never thought would happen to our scene. RN was without a doubt one of the sickest lineups to ever hit Van, why the fuck did it not work? Im still sittin here wonderin. the way our city is growin is fucked up, before every party back then, 2000 presale in 2 weeks no prob, nowadays peeps are so undecided they don't decide till days before if not day of, result= presales-0!!! and promoters have to take the risk of either makin it at the door or lose tonnes of $$$$. As for the VIP thing ur were talkin about, our last show with Twisted "Breathe" had 400 people on the gueslist cause everybody miraculously "knew the promoter" lol Where is our scene headed I don't know?

[AWOL]

maybe a more accurate statement would be "PLUR is dead and nobody cares".

[taylormade]

Originally posted by AWOL
maybe a more accurate statement would be "PLUR is dead and nobody cares".

NICE ONE!!! :keebler:

[D]

Originally posted by Wood
..... but there needs to be a shift back to reality. DJs are not gods, partying is not a lifestyle, drugs are not a religion. We can all still dance, party & enjoy the music & people, but we need to stop thinking that doing so makes us special or different from anyone else. We are simply celebrating life just as people have since the dawn of humanity.

I think this is the smartest quote I have read about the Vancouver scene in 2003.

I find the attitudes of many the dj's and promoters in this city to be rather disturbing. I'm not comfortable with the added attention that comes with promoting or dj'ing at parties. Anyone who knows me,,, knows that I love trance. I love all music. It's people and dj's/promoters that don't have an open mind towards other genres that is partly responsible for pushing people apart. Although I don't really like breaks or d'n'b,,, I would never be so damn ignorant to say that they suck. Sure I know that trance vs. d'n'b/breaks is really just a generalization,,, but I am going by what I have seen in countless threads in recent months. It all depends on your own personal taste,,, and because you like a certain music style... doesn't mean that it's better than anyone else's choice. The reason why a party like Apex was so great was because people got the chance to see what so many diffrent crews and thier dj's had to offer,,, not just the same old thing with the same old djs,,, that and the fact that tix were only $10.

From what I've seen the scene has been on somewhat of a rollercoaster ride this year. I was in Asia for the first part of 2003 but I read the message boards here all the time when I was down there and parties like Agro's KISS sounded like they were going off. I got booked to open for Mauro Picotto so I decided to come back to Vancouver. Needless to say that the names for Trance that came through Vancouver in 2003 (mostly in clubs) have been amazing and it looked like the scene was getting back on it's feet. But this summer seems like it has taken a complete nose dive. I think this is a result of several issues but mainly we are seriously lacking any decent reasonably priced venues to throw parties at.

I'm going away for vacation this week for 10 days and then I will be leaving for Hong Kong in September for awhile. So it will interesting to see what happens with the scene while I'm away. I have a few things planned for before I leave and I am very proud of how well my club night is doing. Also,,, I am working on something BIG for 2004. So hopefully things with everyone will only get better from here on in- GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE =)

all the best,,,

DT

[ty:rone]

apex proved there's still some vibe left

[kimmay candy]

Yeah I heard from people that the scean has changed alot. I heard that there were alot of productions that put on bompin parties. I wish I lived here when I was younger to see that. But I have just gotten in to it and I guess I have nothing to compair too. I think that the raves are pretty good and I enjoy the tunes. This post is kinda sad...because raves are wicked,I wouldnt wanna see em die out. ^your right apex did show sum wicked vibes and sum rave troopers,I met amazing people!

[Partizan]

who knows.. maybe alot of ppl were on vacation so not enuff ppl bought RN tickets

im pretty sure everythin will jump back to normal after IMF 2003 ...

what pisses me off is when ppl bash other ppl.. like.. "raves arent kool".. "trance isnt kool".. "doing E isnt kool".. although everyone does it.. TRANCE is what got me into raving.. havent done E ... but sure looks fun.. everyone does weed but its cool..

the rave scene is deteriorating because all of a sudden these haters starting showin up at raves and turned everyone else into haters.. nobody looks out for nobody anymore.. the plur has turned into hate

[ty:rone]

the scene's always had haters of each genre n stuff

ravers here just scared of the viets
HAHA

[Senior]

This threads great I give it a 5

[Senior]

By the way for ANYONE who didn't realize it I was mearly trying to stimulate a coversation on the state of affairs in our city. If we all get to comfertable with the status quo things will get really boring in a hury.

DO YOU want to "save" the rave scene? Then get involved. Volunteer, buy a ticket or bring a good friend to a party and show them why you love going to them. Honestly I don't think it really needs to be saved but there is a LOT of room to make things better. It takes a lot of work to put on quality events but if a group of people can all come together to help out with a few things amazing things can happen.

[Xtafen]

Speaking from an educated point of view. I'll say this (being that I've "raved" since 1991 Seattle Boeing Airport Hangers).


Raves are for people who cannot get into clubs and after hours. It's the straight up general fact. Given that our economy is doing quite shiddy, the 16-19 years olds actually have less disposable income now than they did back when I was that age. Anyone who has taken a marketing course would understand how different the demographics are now then they were just 4-5 years ago. This is the major and deciding factors as to why the scene is dead. A deadly, smaller factor which inhances the first, is the fear of loss factor. Who wants to spend money that is limited on something that is most likely not going to happen and end up losing their money? People are not that stupid.

Clubs and after hours are theeeeeeeee way to go. I would suggest even stop going to parties altogether ...or just throw private ones at your own place like I do.


In closing, I just want to say a big FUCK YOU to AGRO as your business practice for Rhythm Nation is everything that is wrong with the scene today as well. You organized a party which you could not sell enough tix to and cancelled it because of your failures. Then you proceed to not refund tickets?

YOU ARE A FUCKING LOSER!

[Goat]

Speaking from an educated point of view. I'll say this (being that I've "raved" since 1991 Seattle Boeing Airport Hangers).

Raves are for people who cannot get into clubs and after hours.

In closing, I just want to say a big FUCK YOU to AGRO as your business practice for Rhythm Nation is everything that is wrong with the scene today as well. You organized a party which you could not sell enough tix to and cancelled it because of your failures. Then you proceed to not refund tickets?

YOU ARE A FUCKING LOSER!

you shut your fucking mouth. first off, if you're who i think you are, you're a fucking tard. second, if you're not, you're still a fucking tard.

an educated point of veiw? wow, you've been raving for a decade, and you have the fucking balls to call dave and the rest of agroculture and everyone who attempted to throw rhythmn nation a fucking loser? you have the fucking balls to criticize someoen who's thrown amazing parties across this continent?
i don't know if you realize it but YOU are not the only one who lost out on rhythmn nation. YOU are not the one who had to organize those events. YOU are not the one who was able to book a primo lineup.

you're upset because you didn't get your 45 fucking dollars back? grow the fuck up. what about the retainers for the dj's, the sound, lighting, security etc etc that were not refunded to agroculture and the investers? it was an investment that fell through. never mind the fact that agroculture has been kind enough to try to offer as many discounts by working with other productions even though they're paying off debts because of an unfortunate investment conclusion.


in closing, fuck you, your self-centered attitude and the fucking horse you rode in on.

-max

ps. raves vs clubbing vs after hours = HUGE difference. someone who apparently has a decade of raving experience should know this. being underage does not limit one to raving.

[Senior]

I find it funny how someone who's been around things for 10 years but hasn't produced events would think they know certain things... I find it funnier someone who's been around for 1 year would do the same thing... I find it funnier yet that I did the same thing when I was newb...

[SEAN!]

[quote]Originally posted by Xtafen
[b]Speaking from an educated point of view. I'll say this (being that I've "raved" since 1991 Seattle Boeing Airport Hangers).


Raves are for people who cannot get into clubs and after hours. It's the straight up general fact. Given that our economy is doing quite shiddy, the 16-19 years olds actually have less disposable income now than they did back when I was that age. Anyone who has taken a marketing course would understand how different the demographics are now then they were just 4-5 years ago. This is the major and deciding factors as to why the scene is dead. A deadly, smaller factor which inhances the first, is the fear of loss factor. Who wants to spend money that is limited on something that is most likely not going to happen and end up losing their money? People are not that stupid.



QUOTE]

you pretty much hit the nail on the head..a major factor as to why the rave scene is in doldrums is simple demographics. there are fewer 16-20 year olds then there were three years ago, in fact there are few younger people in general(consider them a pool of potential ravers). The children of the baby boom generation are now entering their 20's and as such raves no longer appeal to them....this combined with the fact that the novelty of the rave fad has been experienced by most of those who would find it appealing is a good explanation to the current status of the rave scene not only in vancouver but world wide(apparently all over the world attendance to raves has been dropping, anyone notice the difference in size of usc7 compared to usc6 for example?)

this is why i think promoters should focus on building a vibrant club scene especially if vancouver decides to keep the now temporary 5am closing times...nontheless it would be still dope if a small rave scene was maintianed because like goat said raves and clubs are different, and i like getting fucked up at outdoor parties.

[Goat]

^not sure if that's directed towards me or not...but regardless, ignorance is priceless.

[inkster]

HI.

kids have been one of the primary demographics for raves in vancouver for at least 4 years. this is nothing new.

BYE.

[SEAN!]

Originally posted by inkster
HI.

kids have been one of the primary demographics for raves in vancouver for at least 4 years. this is nothing new.

BYE.

no shit but what uim saying is there arent as many as them as there were four or five years ago

[inkster]

i should get a hobby...

Originally posted by Xtafen
Speaking from an educated point of view. I'll say this (being that I've "raved" since 1991 Seattle Boeing Airport Hangers).

that's all nice and good. this doesn't mean you know anything about the present, though. in fact, in my experience people who outright state their raver seniority usually don't have a clue what they're talking about. but i'll ignore my prejudices and treat you as if you hadn't said that.

Raves are for people who cannot get into clubs and after hours. It's the straight up general fact.

a fact! really then. i suppose i should phone up soundproof, and the organix crew, and any of the other dozen or so production companies in vancouver that throw rave-type events primarily for adults. then, after exchanging pleasantries, i'll inform them that they're all too old too seek their own fun in an uncontrolled environment, and that dancing is to music is strictly prohibited to clubs and afterhours.

because... that's just the way it is.

Given that our economy is doing quite shiddy, the 16-19 years olds actually have less disposable income now than they did back when I was that age.

this is laughable logic. kids don't have mortgages or car payments. nor is it common that they have their own kids to look after. rather, being a kid is pretty carefree and if you have a job, money is easily spent on frivolous things like raves.

also, the economy has little relevance on the entry level positions that most kids are qualified for. there is always a need for someone to give you fries, or to check your oil, particularly in a city of high population density like vancouver. aside from seasonal fluctuations, i'd say the demand is pretty constant from year to year.

Anyone who has taken a marketing course would understand how different the demographics are now then they were just 4-5 years ago. This is the major and deciding factors as to why the scene is dead.

that change in demographics prompted the boom you've seen for the past few years. but i really doubt that this is the deciding factor for why things have calmed down. rather, people probably just don't think raves are cool anymore. the fad's over in vancouver. i doubt that there's really anymore to it.

A deadly, smaller factor which inhances the first, is the fear of loss factor. Who wants to spend money that is limited on something that is most likely not going to happen and end up losing their money? People are not that stupid.

by your logic, this should have all happened in 2000, considering a series of high profile parties being cancelled that year. recently, i can't think of any that have been cancelled. in fact, haven't most of the massives this year/last-last-year been successful?

Clubs and after hours are theeeeeeeee way to go. I would suggest even stop going to parties altogether ...or just throw private ones at your own place like I do.

what does it matter if it's your house, or on the beach somewhere in the middle of nowhere? the means are different, but the ends are still the same.

In closing, I just want to say a big FUCK YOU to AGRO as your business practice for Rhythm Nation is everything that is wrong with the scene today as well. You organized a party which you could not sell enough tix to and cancelled it because of your failures. Then you proceed to not refund tickets?

i think this really goes to show how clueless you are. firstly, agroculture is *everything* that is right about this whole ravey rave schtick. if you have been involved in this culture as you say you have, you would realize this. you would have heard about his amazing reputation, and what a great guy he is. you'd also know about some of the shady promoters out there and realize that dave is nothing like them.

secondly, NO ONE forsaw this happening. such an amazing lineup, with such a flawless reputation for awesome parties... this was a shock to even the most hardened of doubters.

thirdly, they lost a lot of money. i don't know what their plan is, but dave has a lot of friends in this town. chances are you'll be able to get your money back over time if you don't get a refund.

yeah, i know that's shitty, but if you've truly been around since 1991, you'd realize SHIT HAPPENS.

[inkster]

Originally posted by Sean!


no shit but what uim saying is there arent as many as them as there were four or five years ago

obviously?

[kimmay candy]

I would have to agree with max on this one! Okay,yeah it blowed when RN did not go down! But we still had a party to go too! and atleast Agroculter was trying to put sumthing togeather for us to party as...no use in bitching and complaing now..I know that they lost alot of money on that party..and I just wanna thank AGRO for taking the time to even putting efforts in throwing a party as sick as RN would of been. He is one of the many people struggling to keep the scean alive and for that its major props! think b4 u speak...ohh and where is the love? there is PLUR out there..sum people are jaded..but thats life..what the fuck we gunna do about it! and raves are for people who wanna FLAIL and givver and have a good time..no for people that cant get in to clubs..I much rather have a nice dirty,sweaty rave than a barstar haven club!

I have said my peace...Im out! PLUR

[normal josh]

wow xtafen, you sure are gettin burned!!!!

yall just need to chill out on some of your e and get hopped up on the pot he he he