Something to think about.

[KimmyCandy]

Like stringbeans said it's all about choice. If i wanted to make a door that I could not open, than I could. At least initially, because that would have been my choice. The question is would I have the power of keeping myself from later changing my mind...well that goes back to the whole choice thing again. (would I chose to keep myself from changing my mind). This problem willl only continue to go in circles. I guess leaving me with the only solution of somehow ordering my powers to be disolved imediatly after the comletion of the door I built. But WHY THE HELL would I ever do that if I was all powerful?

[Partizan]

Originally Posted by optics

If you were so powerful and could do anything, would you be able to build a door that you yourself could not open?

same thing as:

if anything is possible
than an impossibility is as well

[Kazuma]

It's interesting some answers that you guys have came up with. No one is right obviously, but I think you all have some interesting indeas. Good discussion guys.

[Goodfellow]

hey optics can you reply to what i said i was curious where you thought i was contradicting myself

[dapimpstress]

mmmhmmm... doors that cant open....


wait a sec... if its a door, thats impossible to open, then its not a door anymore is it?

[Kazuma]

Sorry I didn't see you post.

You are contradicting youself because one post you are telling me how you once were non-religeous like me. This post...

Originally Posted by GoodFlow

i was once like you.. for a long time actually. boy am i glad those years are over. saying you are against god is probably the stupidest thing you could say. that's only 1 mans opinion though!

Then later you totally bashthe bible, the very thing god's religon christianity is based around. Here....

Originally Posted by GoodFlow

i just have trouble reading through bible thumper mish mash that they all talk about. sorry, i meant to say i laugh out loud while reading that type of stuff. life is about balancin the direction you have while having as much fun as possible. not reading a bunch of bs that tells you every last detail about how you should live your life, then by the time you figure it all out its too late cause you screwed up somewhere along the road and now our creator is sending you to HELL FOR ETERNITY DIE MOTHA FUCKA I HATE YOU!! oh but this lady over here obeyed the bibles every wish and she was so polite and boring she forgot to have any fun, but i'll send her to my eternal heaven cause she was just so darn cute and her backbone is so soft and mushy. yeah, god must have had tons of respect for her!

[Kazuma]

Originally Posted by Ashes

mmmhmmm... doors that cant open....


wait a sec... if its a door, thats impossible to open, then its not a door anymore is it?

Just becuase it's a door doesn't mean it has to open to be a door.

Door
-A movable structure used to close off an entrance, typically consisting of a panel that swings on hinges or that slides or rotates.

-A similar part on a piece of furniture or a vehicle.

for instance.... let's say there is a door that YOU cannot open. It is still a door; just becuase you can't open it doesn't change that.

[Goodfellow]

i meant being spiritual, not religious. i won't even get into how flawed the whole christian religion is, among other religions. i read into ancient scriptures and philosophy type stuff instead of the bible. i just can't understand how so many people can live their lives on the bible, it doesn't make sense. the whole heaven/hell thing is simply ridiculous. if you have talents and work at them, and live out what you're best at doing, then you can make out a heaven on earth. if you can't figure out what you were meant to be doin in this lifetime then you can never really be truly happy in my opinion. you don't need to go to church to figure that kind of shit out, you just need to figure out who YOU are and why you're here. it may sound selfish but the whole belief system needs to be placed in and around yourself / figuring yourself out instead of trying to figure out every last detail (that was setup in a way to control the masses, just look at the states and you can see christianity being used to the governments full advantage) about how our creator wanted us to live. you should just do what you feel is right, what feels natural, keep it REAL.

[dapimpstress]

moveable = openable

swings on hinges = OPENS on hinges...

yes and if you cant open it, it does change it, its not a door to you any longer, simply a continuation of the wall.. if someone else can open it, then yes, for them, it is a door, but to those who cannot, it is no longer a door...

why do u seem to think u have the all knowing answer on this one??

Originally Posted by optics

It's interesting some answers that you guys have came up with. No one is right obviously, but I think you all have some interesting indeas.

Because i disagree, obviously.

[Kazuma]

Alright good stuff. You see the way you set the first post I quoted it made me think you were heavy on god. It seems to me you are more into Buddism than anything else.

[Goodfellow]

I haven't really looked into buddism that much, but i think i share some of the same beliefs as they do - reincarnation among other things

[Kazuma]

Originally Posted by Ashes

moveable = openable

swings on hinges = OPENS on hinges...

yes and if you cant open it, it does change it, its not a door to you any longer, simply a continuation of the wall.. if someone else can open it, then yes, for them, it is a door, but to those who cannot, it is no longer a door...

why do u seem to think u have the all knowing answer on this one??
Because i disagree, obviously.

Of course I don't have the answer to it. No one does. It is a ritorical question that has no end. The thing that gets to me is how you can take yoko's post and continue her initial idea and try to make an argument out of it.

The thing is one thing she didn't think about it that if she was to create a "door" out of wood and place it on the floor, it would no longer be a door. It would be a piece of wood on the floor. So therefor she did not create a door because a door has to open.

[Gusto]

Originally Posted by optics

So therefor she did not create a door because a door has to open.

following your logic, it is impossible to create a door that can't be opened, because a door has to open.

[dapimpstress]

tellu the truth i didn't even read her post.. i was just sayin, if you cant open it, then its not a door.. i didnt say n e thign about wood or the floor...


im just sayin, the definition of a door, A movable structure used to close off an entrance, typically consisting of a panel that swings on hinges or that slides or rotates.
I'm just sayin dude... if it doesnt move, its not a door.

[dapimpstress]

Originally Posted by gusto

following your logic, it is impossible to create a door that can't be opened, because a door has to open.

this is EXACTLY what im trying to freaking SAY!~!

[Gusto]

Originally Posted by Ashes

this is EXACTLY what im trying to freaking SAY!~!

haha, i know, i got your back. i'm not saying i agree necessarily, though. doors can be locked. i have a door on my apartment that you can't move or open, but that doesn't mean i don't have a door. anyway, the point is moot anyway, there is no real answer. :)

[Gusto]

also the question doesn't mention anything about whether or not other people can open the door. as far as we know, we just want to know if you can't.

[Kazuma]

Gusto - I agree the question has no answer. It's not ment to be answered.. it's meant to be questioned and thought about.

[Goodfellow]

btw- what the hell is all this door talk? sounds to me like a bunch of university philosophy crap that doesn't really make any sense or matter haha

[Kazuma]

Originally Posted by gusto

following your logic, it is impossible to create a door that can't be opened, because a door has to open.

Exactly, so you cannot do anything then.

[Gusto]

Originally Posted by GoodFlow

btw- what the hell is all this door talk? sounds to me like a bunch of university philosophy crap that doesn't really make any sense or matter haha

yeah, that's what it is. :)

[Canar]

Gah. This fallacy again. There is a difference between what images language can construct and what can logically exist.

The door question is roughly logically equivalent to this:

If you had the power to make anything, could you make two rulers that were both longer than the other? Alternately, mathematically, if you were all-powerful, could you make two numbers A and B such that A > B is true and B > A is true? (There are some weird numerical constructs that will allow you to do this, but that breaks some other parts of logic and so on.)

The situation is impossible to logically model accurately, because it's nonsense.

[Kazuma]

Is it nonsense because you don't like the idea of not coming to a conclusion?

[Alastair]

Originally Posted by GoodFlow

i meant being spiritual, not religious. i won't even get into how flawed the whole christian religion is, among other religions. i read into ancient scriptures and philosophy type stuff instead of the bible. i just can't understand how so many people can live their lives on the bible, it doesn't make sense. the whole heaven/hell thing is simply ridiculous. if you have talents and work at them, and live out what you're best at doing, then you can make out a heaven on earth. if you can't figure out what you were meant to be doin in this lifetime then you can never really be truly happy in my opinion.work at them, and live out what you're best at doing, then you can make out a heaven on earth. if you can't figure out what you were meant to be doin in this lifetime then you can never really be truly happy in my opinion.

Just out of curiosity what scriptures and philosophy do you read that aren’t religious, or don’t contain religious connotations? So you claim you’re spiritual? But don’t have compassion or understanding for people that are having other walks of life. I recall you saying you believe in reincarnation, so wouldn’t peoples life lesson depends on the certain path they walk? The whole heaven/hell concept is totally misinterpreted. If you read the bible, you will see that in the Old Testament there is no mentioning of heaven or hell. However in the New Testament it does. So you have to think about it. A lot of things about Christianity are messed up. How the Church and Kings manipulated the bible to control the masses. You’re right about this, you’re correct. But you need to keep this in mind with any text you read. In the New Testament it talks about heaven and hell. Yes. But the church could have added all these notions. They could be real, that’s up to you. However, when dying on the cross Jesus forgave everyone. Not just Christians. Keep that in mind. You’re forgiven for your flaws. There is a strong message in the bible teaching forgiveness, acceptance, and love. If you had read the bible from cover to cover you would understand that it’s not telling you how to live, but showing you how you could live. Like any text it should be read as a metaphor. It’s unfortunate that Christianity has been so grossly misinterpreted. A lot of misinformation causes people to believe Christianity is something that it simply isn’t.

But since you’re reading other scriptures and philosophy you probably already know that. The Bhagavad-Gita, The Koran, The Urantia Book, and many other texts all have pretty much the same message of Forgiveness, acceptance and love. The “Christian God” named Yahweh, or YHWH (since Hebrew doesn’t have vowels) means I am that I am. Now go read the Bhagavad-Gita. It really is close to the same isn’t it?

The problem in the states, as you have pointed out, is that these people are being controlled by fear. It’s unfortunate that so many people miss the major points of the bible, yet claim to be “god-fearing Christians”. But you can’t blame Christianity; you can blame Greed, and Lust for Power by the US Government. You can blame ignorance on the general public. The Government is simply manipulating the mass majority (which can fairly be argued isn’t really the majority)

But honestly. “Just do what you feel is right, what feels natural”. Are you willing to accept the consequences of everyone just doing what feels right? Rapists, Murderers, War, The United States? Maybe the problem with most societies is that everyone does just do “what feels right”, instead of taking the time to analyze life and think about the consequences of their actions. I’m not talking about post life consequences; I’m talking about how your actions affect others while you’re on this planet. So anyways I agree, you don't need to goto Church to learn about how to live life. My interpretations of the bible could be called Blasphemy by a lot of bible thumping christians but I forgive them and hopefully they can forgive me. Really when it comes down to it. Christianity is about developing a personal relationship with god. And who can tell you what the personal relationship is other than yourself?

Anyways, that’s about all I have to say.. fire away.

[Kazuma]

Not even going to start to debate, but you have awesome points... very solid.