Something to think about.

[Canar]

Originally Posted by optics

Is it nonsense because you don't like the idea of not coming to a conclusion?

How I feel about the situation has absolutely no bearing on logical validity. I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from making personal judgements about me based on my logical analysis, and instead think about the points being raised, because they make sense.

The situation is nonsense because it makes no logical sense. I'll break it down a little more so it's easier to comprehend.

1. There is a being, A.
2. A is able to perform any action.
3. A creates a door.
4. A imparts a quality to the door such that it cannot be opened.

4 contradicts 2, preventing the situation from making logical sense. If 4 is true, 2 becomes false. So, for the situation to make sense (and thus graduate from being non-sense), either 2 or 4 has to be changed.

The language of your paradox is constructed in such a way that although it seems to make logical sense, it really doesn't when you break it down.

[Gusto]

Exactly.. the fallacy is in the question itself, not in the answers.

[Goodfellow]

Originally Posted by Canar

How I feel about the situation has absolutely no bearing on logical validity. I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from making personal judgements about me based on my logical analysis, and instead think about the points being raised, because they make sense.

The situation is nonsense because it makes no logical sense. I'll break it down a little more so it's easier to comprehend.

1. There is a being, A.
2. A is able to perform any action.
3. A creates a door.
4. A imparts a quality to the door such that it cannot be opened.

4 contradicts 2, preventing the situation from making logical sense. If 4 is true, 2 becomes false. So, for the situation to make sense (and thus graduate from being non-sense), either 2 or 4 has to be changed.

The language of your paradox is constructed in such a way that although it seems to make logical sense, it really doesn't when you break it down.

you should concentrate your philosophy efforts into somethin of relative importance :P

[Gusto]

Originally Posted by GoodFlow

you should concentrate your philosophy efforts into somethin of relative importance :P

that wasn't philosophy, that was common sense.

[Goodfellow]

Originally Posted by Alastair

Just out of curiosity what scriptures and philosophy do you read that aren’t religious, or don’t contain religious connotations? So you claim you’re spiritual? But don’t have compassion or understanding for people that are having other walks of life. I recall you saying you believe in reincarnation, so wouldn’t peoples life lesson depends on the certain path they walk? The whole heaven/hell concept is totally misinterpreted. If you read the bible, you will see that in the Old Testament there is no mentioning of heaven or hell. However in the New Testament it does. So you have to think about it. A lot of things about Christianity are messed up. How the Church and Kings manipulated the bible to control the masses. You’re right about this, you’re correct. But you need to keep this in mind with any text you read. In the New Testament it talks about heaven and hell. Yes. But the church could have added all these notions. They could be real, that’s up to you. However, when dying on the cross Jesus forgave everyone. Not just Christians. Keep that in mind. You’re forgiven for your flaws. There is a strong message in the bible teaching forgiveness, acceptance, and love. If you had read the bible from cover to cover you would understand that it’s not telling you how to live, but showing you how you could live. Like any text it should be read as a metaphor. It’s unfortunate that Christianity has been so grossly misinterpreted. A lot of misinformation causes people to believe Christianity is something that it simply isn’t.

But since you’re reading other scriptures and philosophy you probably already know that. The Bhagavad-Gita, The Koran, The Urantia Book, and many other texts all have pretty much the same message of Forgiveness, acceptance and love. The “Christian God” named Yahweh, or YHWH (since Hebrew doesn’t have vowels) means I am that I am. Now go read the Bhagavad-Gita. It really is close to the same isn’t it?

The problem in the states, as you have pointed out, is that these people are being controlled by fear. It’s unfortunate that so many people miss the major points of the bible, yet claim to be “god-fearing Christians”. But you can’t blame Christianity; you can blame Greed, and Lust for Power by the US Government. You can blame ignorance on the general public. The Government is simply manipulating the mass majority (which can fairly be argued isn’t really the majority)

But honestly. “Just do what you feel is right, what feels natural”. Are you willing to accept the consequences of everyone just doing what feels right? Rapists, Murderers, War, The United States? Maybe the problem with most societies is that everyone does just do “what feels right”, instead of taking the time to analyze life and think about the consequences of their actions. I’m not talking about post life consequences; I’m talking about how your actions affect others while you’re on this planet. So anyways I agree, you don't need to goto Church to learn about how to live life. My interpretations of the bible could be called Blasphemy by a lot of bible thumping christians but I forgive them and hopefully they can forgive me. Really when it comes down to it. Christianity is about developing a personal relationship with god. And who can tell you what the personal relationship is other than yourself?

Anyways, that’s about all I have to say.. fire away.

I agree with most of what you said. I probably could have worded "what feels natural/right" a bit better, the problem is these crazy murderers/rapists are born with a certain conscience that doesn't really seem to be reversable? what I meant was, the way I live my life is with balance and what seems logical.. I guess not everyone can figure things out for themselves so they need speakers to help them every week. I'm not against this in any way, and I'm totally accepting of others in the sense that .. they can do whatever the hell they want. I just am against some of the things religions like christianity teaches about life/history. I feel like you have to develop a relationship with the creator in how your life is led and the way you were designed. if i feel smokin weed helps me intellectually in writing lyrics lets say, why would I want to listen to some bible thumper telling me weed is the devil, when they really have no idea what they are talking about. Take a coke mover for example, any christian would see them as "doomed for hell" but I see it as, you move the coke and supply it to people who are stupid enough to throw their lives away snorting it - so who really cares if you are doing something morally "wrong" right? it is the users choice to ruin their lives, and they are ultimately the only person who can change that, the mover is simply profiting off these peoples mistakes. Maybe that's a bad example, but I just look at things differently. I mean, the world is so currupt and fucked up there is NO chance of things changing anytime soon, so why not join the game and get ahead - as long as you keep your own life in check I see nothing wrong.

[Only_Glory]

Originally Posted by Canar

The situation is nonsense because it makes no logical sense. I'll break it down a little more so it's easier to comprehend.

1. There is a being, A.
2. A is able to perform any action.
3. A creates a door.
4. A imparts a quality to the door such that it cannot be opened.

4 contradicts 2, preventing the situation from making logical sense. If 4 is true, 2 becomes false. So, for the situation to make sense (and thus graduate from being non-sense), either 2 or 4 has to be changed.

The language of your paradox is constructed in such a way that although it seems to make logical sense, it really doesn't when you break it down.

what i was trying to prove, that point 1 and 2 together cannot exist, that there is no such a god, this is how the whole debate here started on religion. this question though, does obviously apply to the almighty power we call god

there is no such being, there is no such door

[dapimpstress]

dude, is this thread about god, or doors?

[Canar]

Originally Posted by Only_Glory

what i was trying to prove, that point 1 and 2 together cannot exist, that there is no such a god, this is how the whole debate here started on religion. this question though, does obviously apply to the almighty power we call god

Then rephrase 1 to read "1. There is a exists a power, A" and 2 to read "2. A is almighty". Substitute all instances of "A" with "God" if that better suits your sensibility.

That change doesn't discount the validity of 1 or 2, nor does show that 1 and 2 are contradictory.

You're debating that because 2 is impossible, everything becomes invalid. However, if you take 2 as a given, it becomes a thought experiment. Whether it can happen or not in reality is besides the point; the debate is around a theoretical situation anyhow. I'm pretty sure this got rebutted somewhere earlier, I was just skimming to see if anyone else made my main point. :)

[Canar]

Originally Posted by GoodFlow

you should concentrate your philosophy efforts into somethin of relative importance :P

Like what, raving? :P

"The Philosophy of PLUR" by Canar, the title of the next #1 non-fiction best seller...

[~god~]

this is an ooold philosophical question that Socrates proposed.
his was: "Could the almighty God give birth to a stone that he could not lift?"
It is simple to observe that a few branches have derived from this question.

The purpose of this question wass not to gain any 'answers' or 'conclusions'.. but at the time, he wanted to prove to everyone that absolutely everything can be questioned.. and thats the solid root of modern philosophy.. skepticism.

[Liqwid]

is that like the chicken and the egg question...

~Dalyn

[yoko*]

Originally Posted by optics

Yoko, even if I open a door on the floor it still reveals something on the other side right? In theory, opening it.

That's not opening it cody, that's "lifting" it. I'm talking about a door that is unhinged. If as door is unhinged it's still a door, but when it's on the floor unhinged, you cannot "open" it. You can however, lift it, kick it, punch it, burn it.

[Kazuma]

Originally Posted by ~god~

this is an ooold philosophical question that Socrates proposed.
his was: "Could the almighty God give birth to a stone that he could not lift?"
It is simple to observe that a few branches have derived from this question.

The purpose of this question wass not to gain any 'answers' or 'conclusions'.. but at the time, he wanted to prove to everyone that absolutely everything can be questioned.. and thats the solid root of modern philosophy.. skepticism.

Exactly. Good shit ~god~.

Yoko, you are always a good person to have in threads like these, but like ~god~ said. Such questions like these have no need for such in depth thought and such logicality. Although you do bring up good and valid points, but maybe if you could do anything you could create a door on the floor with hinges and somethign behind it. :P