Stanley "Tookie" Williams

[Antenna_Boy]

Originally Posted by cubed

There are a lot of people who don't have a clue who Stanley Williams is.

FOR CHRIST SAKE THE MAN WAS NOMINATED FOR A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE IN 2001.

After being held on death row for 21 years, the man rehabilitated himself, and did a lot of good to curb urban gang violence. California penal system has just blatanly said that we'll rehabilitate you and then we'll kill you anyways.

This falls solely on the shoulders of "THE GOVERNATOR", Schwarzenegger has his gigantic head stuffed so far up his ass he doesn't know if he's coming or going. All it took was commuting him to life and he would continue benefit society, even if he's behind bars.

This truely is a sad state of affairs.

I agree, it sucks..oh well :)

[shorerider]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I'm sorry but how is the death penalty going to bring back the dead?

Does the death penalty make America's streets any safer? Do Americans feel any safer with it in place?

Oh, it won't, that's for sure. Think of it more as a detterent, a way to make people think that if they kill someone, they too will wind up dead. And now everyone knows that if you are in Cali and shoot some poor girl in the face, you'll wind up dead as well, albiet in a much more cleaner fashion.

Sorry about your luck, Tookie, I sure hope Satan takes it easy on you knowing that you were nominated for the peace prize and all.

[miss.myra]

Go ahead and look up crime statistics in states that have a death penalty in place


it is NOT a deterrent.

[islandgirl]

^^^ very true..the places in the Us that Have the Death Penalty have the highest Crime Rates (especially for murders) in the country. For example, Texas, Florida, California.

[shorerider]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Go ahead and look up crime statistics in states that have a death penalty in place


it is NOT a deterrent.

Sure it is. He won't be killing anyone again, now will he :D

This is a pointless, hackneyed argument, myra. The guy's a sack of shit, he's dead now. Like I said earlier, there's a million other sacks of shit just like him out there. I do agree with you that we would be a lot better off if a lot more effort was put into preventing crimes and such, but with the way society is, was and will be there's really not going to be many changes in that respect, is there?

[fable]

I do agree with you that we would be a lot better off if a lot more effort was put into preventing crimes and such, but with the way society is, was and will be there's really not going to be many changes in that respect, is there?

Like it or not, this opinion is the reason why, change is so slow in coming. Act now, the belief will follow.

[shorerider]

allright hot shot, tell me how we/I can deter such violent crimes. Tell me how to act so that things will become better, k? And after you're done spouting off, go out, take your own advice and do it.

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

its called balance..u kill someone u should die to..its only fair

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by PaIniNyErAnUs

its called balance..u kill someone u should die to..its only fair

<3 <3

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by decypher

hah i can't believe you people.

He was convicted in 1981, 24 years ago. Most people change greatly just from the age of 18 to 21. He was caught up in some rough stuff but that doesen't mean he hasen't changed. He touched many lives during his time in jail. How is killing him bringing back the dead?

dude ur missing the fucking point here, after you kill 4 people who gives fuck if hes changed or done any good afterwards, he killed 4 people.

[axion]

'i just don't get the logic in trying/imprisoning people for murder, then sanctioning it'

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

dude ur missing the fucking point here, after you kill 4 people who gives fuck if hes changed or done any good afterwards, he killed 4 people.

he was probley in jail for a while first living offa taxpayers, after picking apart 4 families, just cuz he wrote some books dont mean hes a sait, he killed 4 ppl, shit like that dont even justify the amout of money hes costed people, he had time to make his peace with god hopfully, but mistakes like thoes dont go unpunished

it cant bring em back, but he should have thought about the life altering decisions he made, and not have been so stupid not to think that something like this could happen..his one life to 4 others......thats just not fair

[Leviathan]

What about the people who get convicted by mistake?

The problem with the death penalty and the system in general is that it doesn't treat everyone equally.

Originally Posted by hardstylin

dude ur missing the fucking point here, after you kill 4 people who gives fuck if hes changed or done any good afterwards, he killed 4 people.

[axion]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

dude ur missing the fucking point here, after you kill 4 people who gives fuck if hes changed or done any good afterwards, he killed 4 people.

if you want to use the 'eye for an eye' argument, i think you are clearly missing 'the fucking point here'.

yes, dude probably (i would imagine he is guilty) killed 4 people. however, who knows how many lives he saved through his anti-gang work, i would imagine it was more than 4.

[Leviathan]

Meanwhile Kenneth Lay and Jeffree Skilling who screwed over thousands of people will get a nice cushy jail cell and cost tax payers a shitload of cash. There were families that were left with nothing because of Enron but thats ok because they never pulled a trigger.

inequalities kill.

Originally Posted by PaIniNyErAnUs

its called balance..u kill someone u should die to..its only fair

[fable]

allright hot shot, tell me how we/I can deter such violent crimes. Tell me how to act so that things will become better, k? And after you're done spouting off, go out, take your own advice and do it.

(deep breath) i personally believe that confrontation is a good thing, nonetheless your angst is unnecessary.

Like it or not, this opinion is the reason why, change is so slow in coming. Act now, the belief will follow.

what about this statement bothered you? Is it necessry that i have an alternative to state sanctioned murder, before i can open my mouth and voice an opinion? If thats the case, this would be a very quite world.

The killings of 4 people is horrific anf tragic, and i would be lying if i said i would reach for the nearest axe, and shred the mutherfucker that killed 1,2,4,100 people that i knew, hell id keep em on life support so he could feel it until i turned him into a fucking meat puppet.

BUT! i always go back to the lame proverb "an eye for an eye, until everyone goes blind" Yeah its pretty rhetorical, but true in a societal sense. If our humanity and connection to eachother is cyclacle then the absence of alternative policy is not good enough to counter murder. Not an elvolutionary sence, and not in a here and now sence.

Im not trying to get your back up mate, (although i do believe we do our best growing, when we are backed into a corner) rather im trying to point out that we all reach for the reactionary, before the core truths in matters of horrific tragedy. Its what makes us who we are in these times of death and destruction. But sooner or later were going to have to bite the bullet, re-invest in some faith (however battered) and act on principle alone.

that principle inspite of the obvious appeal of statements such as these

its called balance..u kill someone u should die to..its only fair

is going to have to be followed sooner or later. Part of me agrees with the idea that if somone kills, they sure as fuck should die to(can you imagine if it was a family member of yours!) BUT if we take the word " balance " then we understand that the only true balance would be achieved with a humane act in the face of a vile one.

but perhaps your anger is a good thing, just use IT before IT uses YOU

peace+respet
shak

[axion]

Originally Posted by fable

BUT if we take the word " balance " then we understand that the only true balance would be achieved with a humane act in the face of a vile one.

sayin.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

Meanwhile Kenneth Lay and Jeffree Skilling who screwed over thousands of people will get a nice cushy jail cell and cost tax payers a shitload of cash. There were families that were left with nothing because of Enron but thats ok because they never pulled a trigger.

inequalities kill.

heh, i think theres a trend starting here. Im 100% in agreeance with YOU, inequalities do in fact kill.

[stringbeans]

basically take any criminology course and you'll understand that prison should be used for REHABILITATION and not just detainment and punishment. tookie seemed like he had been rehabilitated and he was still punished

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by PaIniNyErAnUs

he was probley in jail for a while first living offa taxpayers, after picking apart 4 families, just cuz he wrote some books dont mean hes a sait, he killed 4 ppl, shit like that dont even justify the amout of money hes costed people, he had time to make his peace with god hopfully, but mistakes like thoes dont go unpunished

it cant bring em back, but he should have thought about the life altering decisions he made, and not have been so stupid not to think that something like this could happen..his one life to 4 others......thats just not fair

Yeah so society should equally never forgive you for being a drug addict, even if it was in the past and you made efforts to overcome it? In your eyes you make it seem like people never change or feel remorse, but maybe you should take a long hard look at yourself.

[Ryan Ross]

whoa... I had no idea there were so many pro capital punishment people on the board? People in the thread seem to be arguing over should he be punished or not, and obviously he should. But is capital punishment the best way to do it? Is our canadian system totally flawed because we dont kill people?

I think the best way to look at it is this:
1) What do you get from killing him?
2) What do you get from keeping him alive?

answers as I see it:
1)... i guess some people would argue that it would keep others from doing the same out of the fear of dying themselves (which, I personally think is bullshit. When you're wrapped up in gang life you dont think about the punishment when your about to kill someone, you think your not going to get caught)

2) You get a person who can actually reach out and talk to kids who are in the same position he was and maybe make a difference in some peoples lives. The guy has some serious weight behind him being the founder of one of the biggest gangs around, and if he can convince people that its not worth it then I think he serves a much better purpose to society alive than dead.

[miss.myra]

interestingly enough, I don't estimate the majority of people bigupsing the death penalty have actually had to deal with having a family member murdered.

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by axion

if you want to use the 'eye for an eye' argument, i think you are clearly missing 'the fucking point here'.

yes, dude probably (i would imagine he is guilty) killed 4 people. however, who knows how many lives he saved through his anti-gang work, i would imagine it was more than 4.

again that shit doesnt matter at all, ya hes helped some people out after the fact, but at the end of every day he killed 4 people, and whats his punishment sitting in jail fuck, come on.

if those 4 people he killed where ur mom dad and 2 best friends youd be thinking alot different and you wouldnt give 2 fucks about the books he wrote from jail.

Its real easy to just sit back and talk about shit hes done after the fact because his 4 murders didnt affect your life in any way.

[Ryan Ross]

^^^
its easy to talk shit when the good that hes done hasnt affected your life either.

[axion]

Originally Posted by hardstylin

again that shit doesnt matter at all, ya hes helped some people out after the fact, but at the end of every day he killed 4 people, and whats his punishment sitting in jail fuck, come on.

if those 4 people he killed where ur mom dad and 2 best friends youd be thinking alot different and you wouldnt give 2 fucks about the books he wrote from jail.

Its real easy to just sit back and talk about shit hes done after the fact because his 4 murders didnt affect your life in any way.

you know what, you're exactly right. fuck, if he dropped anyone i knew i would probably lose my mind. but i think if i wanted revenge i would rather have dude sit in solitary for 60 years and scratch his eyes out.

that would be biased though, of course if i lost my moms to him i would lose my shit. my logic would be clouded by rage though. we have to opportunity to think clearly and see the big picture when we are not affected by it. that is something we should take advantage of.