Stanley "Tookie" Williams

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Yeah so society should equally never forgive you for being a drug addict, even if it was in the past and you made efforts to overcome it? In your eyes you make it seem like people never change or feel remorse, but maybe you should take a long hard look at yourself.

ya because self problems like drug addiction were you are only hurting urself are TOTALLY in the same ball park as making the choice to murder someone and going threw with it 4 times!!!


i think alot of people are not realizing the severity murder, its the #1 chart topper of all time fucked up horrible things you can do in life.

when people think about phedofiles and rapists it makes them sick to there stomaches cause its so fucked up, well murder even though barely barely worse then these things, its still worse, and realistically should make you feel just as sick thinking about it. It just happens so much and we see it on tv and in movies that its lost its shock factor when it shouldnt have.

[Leviathan]

You seriously believe this?

ya because self problems like drug addiction were you are only hurting urself are TOTALLY in the same ball park as making the choice to murder someone and going threw with it 4 times!!!

[fable]

we have to opportunity to think clearly and see the big picture when we are not affected by it. that is something we should take advantage of.

mos def a luxary AND a responsibility.

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

You seriously believe this?

ya i seriously believe that drug addiction and murder are not in the same bullpark.

[decypher]

So how is reciprocating the murder make things better? He might have killed people but he had changed and was bringing something positive to the world. Then he was killed. How is that right?

[Antenna_Boy]

Originally Posted by decypher

So how is reciprocating the murder make things better? He might have killed people but he had changed and was bringing something positive to the world. Then he was killed. How is that right?

He should not have killed in the first place! Nuff said. If he really wanted to make things better for the world, he should have done his book writing and all his anti-gang shit activities first, and then instead of killing innocent people, go kill the crypt gang memebers he was working with. That way he spares the lives of innocent human beings and anti-gang the gangs. Nuff said :mexitoke:

[Ryan Ross]

^^^
fucking genius! Someone nominate this guy for a nobel prize!

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

interestingly enough, I don't estimate the majority of people bigupsing the death penalty have actually had to deal with having a family member murdered.

...still waiting? What makes people feel they have the right to speak out for how families of the fallen should and should not seek closure if they've never been through it themselves?

[hardstylin]

k really theres no point in arguing this anymore some are pro some arnt.

but

for all you people talking about all the good hes done after and how we should be more leaniant towards him because of how many lifes hes helped save, lets not forget hes the founding member of the crips, how many lifes has this guy destroyed because he created one of the biggest gangs filled with people just like him. probly 1000x more then lives he helped.

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

Originally Posted by fable

(
is going to have to be followed sooner or later. Part of me agrees with the idea that if somone kills, they sure as fuck should die to(can you imagine if it was a family member of yours!) BUT if we take the word " balance " then we understand that the only true balance would be achieved with a humane act in the face of a vile one.

but perhaps your anger is a good thing, just use IT before IT uses YOU

peace+respet
shak

no anger here..just stating that when that sort of punishment(death)..there would be alot less of all this bullshit

he did the crime, its obvious and now hes payed the price..aint that much more too it... if he was wrongley accused.and this applies in all cases then thats a mistake uf the motherfuckers playing god

vicious circle and dangerous road

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

interestingly enough, I don't estimate the majority of people bigupsing the death penalty have actually had to deal with having a family member murdered.

ive had a family memeber murdered and a close family memeber almost murder someone..i love my close family member alot but if he had succeded in his attempt to kill somoene i would attend his execution or visit him in jail for 25 years..the dowside is yes that man has family memebers that are gonna miss him, but the grief he gave to 4 other families is far worse then what his own blood would feel...

its his own fault the only sad thing is he had to deal with it b4 he died knowing that he was gonna die that was his punishment, they dying part probley wasnt that bad...

i dunno where im goin with this ..im stoned and im gonna go get osme cheeseburgers and beer

[Vitamin-X]

Rehabilitation and forgivness can't always satisfy Justice.
It's not like he just killed a single person.
It's not like he even just killed a single person in a fit of rage or jelousy.
He killed four times vindictively and viciously.
If he really changed he knew what he deserved, and was probably ready for it. If he hadn't then he was just trying to weasel out of it.

On a seperate note, having blowheart glory-hounds like ale sharpton and jesse jackson in his corner probably put the last nails in his coffin. Yeah,
Arnold's going to listen to them, not likely. I won't even mention snoop dog, that's just too stupid.

In a world where Libya heads the UN on human rights, I wouldn't take international awards to seriously. It almost a sure sign you're a jerk off if you're nominated for a noble.

[ja_raul]

wow im surprised this thread made it to page 3, anyways lets get some facts straight.. tookies actions were pretty harsh, they were no misdemeanors, for the people arguing "there shouldnt be a death penalty", then i say you start another thread.

ignorance of the law is not an excuse, thats the way i see it, he commited crimes that were followed by serious penalties, whether or not he was doing "good" in jail doesnt change what he did in his past. the law as it stands (in california) i guess deems people to be killed for such actions.

lets not forget, the states is bullshit, im surprised i care enough to have read about this tookie fellow at all, but once i read allegations that "every crip would kill 1 cop the day after tookies death sentence" i sort of got interested. i couldnt figure out if it was a plea tactic or what, since tookie is now supposed to be a man of peace, why would his people perform violent acts to free him? also, this is from SA: what if they had settled this over a cage fight? (arnold and tookie) back when they were both in their prime

vs

[Leviathan]

So you honestly don't see the connection between funding gangs who kill people by buying drugs?

Originally Posted by hardstylin

ya i seriously believe that drug addiction and murder are not in the same bullpark.

[stringbeans]

a lot of this shit stems much deeper than just the idea that "he killed people, therefore he should be killed"

the majority of crime comes from people who had bad upbringings, whether it be abuse in the home or a harsh environment (ie. the ghetto). so in a sense, we should be combatting societal issues as opposed to persecuting someone who had negative images of society thrust upon them at an early age. however, if the person IS persecuted, we should do all we can to rehabilitate that person instead of punish them for something which ultimately was a by-product of their environment

thats just an idealist view i guess

blah blah blah

[hardstylin]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

So you honestly don't see the connection between funding gangs who kill people by buying drugs?

ya i do see the connection, but the web of crime is not the topic of discussion.

and if you think drug users and cold blooded murders should be put in the same category i say ur a fucking idiot.

[Antenna_Boy]

Originally Posted by Blunted

^^^
fucking genius! Someone nominate this guy for a nobel prize!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! But I don't have a speech to present just yet ;) I have to go write a book first =)

[Antenna_Boy]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

So you honestly don't see the connection between funding gangs who kill people by buying drugs?

You are off topic on this thread dude. The connection here is between gangs and killing innocent people which then are punished by law. The connection therefore pertains to murder and death penalty.

[Leviathan]

^ I just don't see the difference between the person who pays for the trigger to be pulled and the person who pulls it. Why does one deserve the death penalty and the other not?

[Antenna_Boy]

^either way someone has to pay :mexitoke:

[axion]

Originally Posted by ja_raul

lets not forget, the states is bullshit, im surprised i care enough to have read about this tookie fellow at all, but once i read allegations that "every crip would kill 1 cop the day after tookies death sentence" i sort of got interested. i couldnt figure out if it was a plea tactic or what, since tookie is now supposed to be a man of peace, why would his people perform violent acts to free him? also, this is from SA: what if they had settled this over a cage fight? (arnold and tookie) back when they were both in their prime

you believe this? most crips are 16-19 year old boys, who could give a fuck about tookie. and thats on the real.

tookie denounced the crips, in fact in theory he was opposed to them and everything they stood for.

no one's gonna get murked for tookie.

[shorerider]

Originally Posted by fable

(deep breath) i personally believe that confrontation is a good thing, nonetheless your angst is unnecessary.



what about this statement bothered you? Is it necessry that i have an alternative to state sanctioned murder, before i can open my mouth and voice an opinion? If thats the case, this would be a very quite world.

The killings of 4 people is horrific anf tragic, and i would be lying if i said i would reach for the nearest axe, and shred the mutherfucker that killed 1,2,4,100 people that i knew, hell id keep em on life support so he could feel it until i turned him into a fucking meat puppet.

BUT! i always go back to the lame proverb "an eye for an eye, until everyone goes blind" Yeah its pretty rhetorical, but true in a societal sense. If our humanity and connection to eachother is cyclacle then the absence of alternative policy is not good enough to counter murder. Not an elvolutionary sence, and not in a here and now sence.

Im not trying to get your back up mate, (although i do believe we do our best growing, when we are backed into a corner) rather im trying to point out that we all reach for the reactionary, before the core truths in matters of horrific tragedy. Its what makes us who we are in these times of death and destruction. But sooner or later were going to have to bite the bullet, re-invest in some faith (however battered) and act on principle alone.

that principle inspite of the obvious appeal of statements such as these

Meh, I was feeling argumentative this morning, playing a bit of devil's advocate and spouting off. I really can't be bothered to participate in these internet debate/aguments/pissing contests, because nothing really ever comes of them. people just end up pummelling each other with text and nitpicking and whatifing each other into oblivion in the seemingly neverending abyss that is known as the internet forum, in which everyone's opinion MATTERS.

[AGROculture]

I don't believe in the death sentence so no

But If I did I would have to say yes.

I think it would be wrong because gang youth will listen to him because he is a roll model. But it's more wrong to the families of those who he murdered in cold blood

[esoter1c]

Eye for an eye.

[ja_raul]

Originally Posted by axion

you believe this? most crips are 16-19 year old boys, who could give a fuck about tookie. and thats on the real.

i said that this is why i started following tookies stories, because of wild statements like that