Canadian Government Extends War Drive

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by Chuck

im curious as to what you guys think would be an appropriate response to the 9/11 attacks then. Since that is what spurned afghanistan.

youre on glue if you think islamic extremists had ANYTHING to do with 9/11.9/11 was orchestrated and carried out by the US government.It was a big fucking insurance scam buddy boy.

youre also on glue for beleiving that the only terrorists that exist are that of arab descent.The worst terrorists known to man is white europeans.The "pillars of the community" heavily linked to the illuminati,free masons,and bilderbergs.Now you can use tinfoil hat brigade as your rebuttal,but Im not bullshitting you.These organizations exist and they have for years,and they will continue to exist for many more years.

I REITERATE once again......sigh, since people just dont get it........that it was UNANIMOUS INTERNATIONAL CONSENT, even by the ill fated UN and NATO themselves....yes unfortunately THE WHOLE WORLD agreed something needed to be done about afghanistan.

unfortunately the UN and NORTHCOM(nato) were born out of the Illuminati.

order out of chaos bitches.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

What is at stake here, is that the fact that now that we have this league of brainwashed, suicidal zealots bent on the destruction of the western nations. It is not an arguable fact, terrorists have made it a clear point time and time again that the destruction of the modern western world as we know it is their ultimate goal. There is no negotiation with them, there is no barter, there is no trade. TO think that a peaceful solution can be achieved is akin to turning a blind eye to the truth. Never have I heard yet of a feasable peaceful solution to the proper removal of terrorism. They cannot be negotiated with, plain and simple.

are you sure youre talking about "terrorists" here?Cuz it sounds soooooooooooooooooo much like the NWO.oh wait,theyre terrorists too.

[-evil-duerr-]

but but
if canadians didnt extend their war drive, the elite powers wouldnt have gone through the trouble of paying off big wigs in the canadian government to rig the election for the conservative party.

thats my theory. ha ha

[esoter1c]

I blame Jesus, he never came back, fuckin' joneser.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Chuck

ominous fucks, ignorance blah blah, once again comes the berated child denied his ice cream cone.

It would be small wonder and small minds that fall into favor with the way you present yourself.

HAHAH, so after youve realized that your prose is essentially biggotry born of shear islamaphobia, and a penchance for blind belief in north american mass media, you turn around and focus on the insults?

WEAK!

There may be a handfull (okay maybe more than an handfull) of disses in my writing, but its also countrered by accurate reasoning, and an assesment of the current objectives that goes far beyond painting an entire community of an entire nation based on the comments of the few.

Small child denied his ice cream cone? Once again with this anology, but i think you mistake me for someone who is out to win a small insginificant post battle on a chat board. You see I can live with people thinking I am an asshole, or hot tempered, or mean. What I cant live with, nor will i ever be able to live with is following on courses of action, or train of thinking that is born of a callousness and prejudice of the worst kind. You see chucky, i look like a hot termpered asshole, but one that brings a point of view that is only all too relevent and demanding of a critique of the way we allow ourselves to be governed. Whereas all that you are standing on is this:

What is at stake here, is that the fact that now that we have this league of brainwashed, suicidal zealots bent on the destruction of the western nations. It is not an arguable fact, terrorists have made it a clear point time and time again that the destruction of the modern western world as we know it is their ultimate goal. There is no negotiation with them, there is no barter, there is no trade. TO think that a peaceful solution can be achieved is akin to turning a blind eye to the truth. Never have I heard yet of a feasable peaceful solution to the proper removal of terrorism. They cannot be negotiated with, plain and simple

and I think Fables delicate ego gets severly tarnished when anyone even so much as questions his seemingly pseudointellectual might.

No! Only when racist little shits open their fucking mouths. You have all the right to say and think what you feel. That is your "freedom of speech" but it does not garantee, nor has it ever, the freedom of responsibilty of your comments.

Nations like Iraq and Afghanistan have been carpet bombed into last centrury because of the sentiment of poor excuses of men like you. Men who associate a turbin with an RPG, and Islam with suicide bomber. And yet in the face of libraries upon libraries of examples of US/Canadian/British Imperialism you still seem to think that this only about me not likeing you disgreeing with me??? I have people disagree with me (including people i work with) almost 24/7. Its the nature of what we do. I am no stranger to opposing opinion. But there has always been dissenting opionion. Look at what other people that i havent gotten into with, and look at the similarities and differences. You are one of a few who talks the way they do, and whether its on this board, or out on the street, you can bet your ass, that somebody will be calling you out for who you are.

Not only have you negleted to supply any precedental analogy or fact, you are starting to whine like a two year old. And you speak to me about ice cream? Buck up little soldier, your bullshit ideaology is going to bring a whole lot more than just scathing retort in the remainder of your life. Believe that.

And jake, you need to ask yourself, what is the egotistical awards that could be obtained from going toe to toe with dissent? Intellectual supremacy? Who gives a shit. What academic self involved fuck takes to the street as much as I do, and gets involved with things, and involves people as much as I do, and does it in the face of consistenly being labelled a nut job from Canadas "social democratic ndp bullshit left" and as a bleading heart by organizations whos ideaology are even more radical than my own.

Perhaps from where you are standing this is a debate -from where i stand this is me taking someones racist ideals and turning them on his fucking head.

Of course i get psycho. Since 1991 Iraq has seen close to 4 million deaths as a result of sanctions, war and occupation. Afghanistan has seen war and occupation since the seventies. In Haiti a people lay demolished at the feet of a brand new 20 million dollar Canadian Embassy. Of the coast in the Caribbean lay 6500 US troops, the US Washington and 67 fighter jets, poised to bomb Venezuela/Cuba/Bolivia into the Ice Age. Across Africa lays what can be correctly categorized as a complete, organized and effective desemation of countless numbers of peoples.

And despite this, some little punk kid, who paints the Afghan war as the political equivalent of Elmer Fudd hunting wahbbits, shells out more racism then you would see in a year of C.A.Y meetings, and someone how Im supposed to watch my mouth? Or even care?

The only thing i consistantly do wrong is get overwhelmed by bullshit that is spouted by little shits like chucky, when really I need to understand that in this day and age, young people across this world make fuckers like him an abnormality/ a minority who will only have is own tainted preconception of peoples to keep him company.

What is more terrorfying - the chance of extremism coming to our door step, or creating a scope of extremism so vast and all encompasing on our own door step in some warped preparation for the coming of ghosts?

I have brought up:

-historical US involvement in the middle east in an aim to garner a siginificant foothold/ base of operations
-neoliberalist campaigns that use military occupation as a frontrunner
-the similarities of the Iraq occupation and what is now happening in Afghanistan
-contemporary oppression of women, student, working/poor people, immigrants and Aboriginals in N.America
-historical context of the before mentioned groups
-the illigitemacy of "democratic" elections in both Iraq and Afghanistan
-the agressive language of Canadian government when discussing "canadian interests abroad"
-the overt militarization of our own nation

What has chucky brought up asides from blatant fear monegering that only communicates the "impending doom" on western culture?

And somehow Im the nut job? Fuck you.

Nations like Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, show the rest of the world an examply in socio-politcal revolution can occur inspite of the vast power of western imperialism/capitalism. The resistance movements in both Iraq and Afghanistan (mainly comprised of working people) show us that, the idea of "terrorism" being the reaction to Western "democracy instilling" nations as shear bullshit. And somewhere in all of this, little people still feel the need to equate violence with redemption. On the homefront as continuing attacks are launched on already marginalized peoples and social justice movements, the polarization of views will only increase. And at some point many will understand that you are either oppressed or perptetuating the oppression. And in this landscape, little boys like chucky, calling wolf will be rendered irrelevent and inconsequential.

Chucky you gots all my info, I hope to see you soon.

[Ragga_Wh0re]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

but but
if canadians didnt extend their war drive, the elite powers wouldnt have gone through the trouble of paying off big wigs in the canadian government to rig the election for the conservative party.

thats my theory. ha ha

your theory is actually quite accurate.read up on the bilderbergs.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by fable

And jake, you need to ask yourself, what is the egotistical awards that could be obtained from going toe to toe with dissent? Intellectual supremacy? Who gives a shit. What academic self involved fuck takes to the street as much as I do, and gets involved with things, and involves people as much as I do, and does it in the face of consistenly being labelled a nut job from Canadas "social democratic ndp bullshit left" and as a bleading heart by organizations whos ideaology are even more radical than my own.

i don't know what academic self involved fuck takes to the street as much as you do. my money is probably there is lots more. but it is very commendable of you. i definitly don't do it as much as i should, and i plan this year on getting more involved since this will be the first year i get at ubc that i won't have to take a full course load.

but that's not really what i was getting at. you've even said it before, but you get a teeeeensy bit testy when posting online about certain subjects. not just you, but all of us. i get testy when talking about certain things too. we all have our argumentative kryptonite. i've been working a lot harder lately on keeping my cool in situations where i'm talking to people who don't share the same opinion as me. even if i see their opinion as racist, sexist, homophobic, ignorant, uninformed (insert your favourite ones here) getting angry and uppity just doesn't help. fueling the fire of hate is what that does. hehe, that last sentence sounded like yoda. okay, i'm done now.

ohhhh yeah, i was walking by the VAG a few weeks ago and i saw a MAWO protest going on with some live hip hop and whatever. i was just coming home from work, and i was really tired, otherwise i would've seen if you were there and come said hi.

[Chuck]

He doesnt shut up does he?

Half his prose is an attempt at proof of self worth. ANd the other half is gibberish that keeps reinstating himself. I think he wants a round of applause for attempting to be the single moving force that saves us all from his dark conspiractic notion that we will destroy ourselves in a terrifying stab at what we dont know and only he does.

No, i already told you, with the way you argue, im not even bothering to continue this discussion logically. As much as i would allow a child to get the way he wants by all his yelling, bickering, and insults. That would only serve to encourage and feed the child his ways. So dont even try to thumb your nose and claim im focusing on the insults, because your own actions brought them about in the first place. I dont know a single person with an ounce of decency that would sit in a room and listen and take your incessant blitherings without leaving due in part that you do seriously argue like a berated child. They would get up and leave, leaving you to sit alone in that room all the whille thinking that somehow through your intellectual might you have scared away the opponent and made him see your obvious blinding truths to the world. Im not playing the cut and paste fact game, nor did i want to get into it as i originally stated. You can continue your tirade of facts I already know, as stated of past actions and consequence. All old news to my ears. In a sense you remind me of a dog trying to chase its own tail with your arguments, only you seem thoroughly convinced that if you keep barking at it, one day you will actually catch it. And unfortunately when trying to convince another or debate another that you are right, you are TERRIBLE at it. Through all your incessant whinnings did you think someone you talked to the way you do would cave in and agree to what you said? When half of what you do is attempt to belittle them as an inferior? No self respecting person would even dare to agree with you due to this fact. And that is your fatal flaw.


Are you people actually TRYING to convince me or prove facts to me that you are right and I am wrong? Are you trying to shed light on me and show me things that i should know? It seems very unlikely.....instead labelling all who disagree as ignorant and inferior is all you accomplished. And then, that would mean all you stand for in your worldly quest to share your knowledge has failed...miserably. No respecting person would even dare to agree with you due to this fact. And that is your fatal flaw.

You know i could just as easily jump on this wagon, and call you an ignorant ominous fucktard that is a little boy who has no inkling of whats going on in the world. But thats not my mission, when i debate, I try to level with the other man, to make him see my viewpoint. Which is what ive tried to do here. If i called you a fucking moron for not believing in buddha or jesus, how much more likely are you to be willingly to accept it, rather than if i tried to logically convince you that they exist? THink about it, you may win more converts in your line of work man.


So sorry, my time is done, I stopped reading your posts a while back, thats why i havent really bothered to respond. You can continue your facade of verbal masturbation fable, as it seems your really getting off in listening to yourself speak. Continue if you wish, but i am done.

And Ragga, at least now your arguing a viewpoint, and i see you dwelve within the depths of what most would consider extremist delusional conspiracies. Fair enough in the least that your making yoruself heard and not labelling me a white redneck when you have absolutely no inkling to who you were talking to.

[fable]

Chucky, you stopped making a point sometime between your first and second post. In the spirit of entertaining your bullshit, lets go quote by quote.

Canada plays an important role here, as a deterent to the Taliban forces whom have left the country in its dilapitated stone age.

Wrong, up until the late 80's Kabul was one of the most cosmopoliton cities in the world. There was a stringent nationalist opposition to the Taliban and for the most part rural cities where still considered above third world. The only reason that the Taliban where able to take power was because after the Russian/US cold war grinded to a stall, the US pulled out of Afghanistan with no decompression operations or containment of the "fundementalists" they just spent almost a decade outfitting.

These people are the type that would probably dance for joy...

If canada pulled out of Afghanistan, the Taliban retook power and anounced on international news that the western powers had been defeated.
Then in a couple more bombings of major western centres...maybe some of these people would have someone they know die.

Naaaaaaah, theyd justify it with tinfoil hat conspiracy that fighting known terrorists that openly admit to commiting mass murders against western nations due in part to their religious fanaticism is wrong.

Oh wait, didnt Osama say he is a terrorist that openly bombs and destroys and targets european and western countries?

YES he did! Well, i guess we should do nothing about it and let him be on his way.

After all, were new age hippies with no backbone. Peace love and hippiness.

Lets let them regroup and attack again!

Ah yes, now you begin your assumptions that all people who are against the war are hippies who wear tinfoilhats.

So somehow you are convinced that because of some "film statements" we need to stay in Afghanistan and utterly search and destroy all "terrorists" (at the cost of the entire nation) just so they do not get to us first?

Fanaticism under allah has proven time and time again that they dont CARE whether you bother them or not, they want to DESTROY you. And Israel, and all of the modern western world. You REALLY believe these people would sit down and sip their coffee and ride thier camels if we pulled out? NO. Fanatic Islamists are bent on the destruction of the western world plain and simple. NOt only that, but they would get the idea that attacking us would be even EASIER because we WOULDNT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. What we need is a margaret thatcher approach. Fuck you, you fuck with us, we fuck with you. NOne of this pussyfooting shit about we were friends back then and now you attack us so were gonna sit here like ducks and take your shit because we deserve it and allah is almighty.

Anyone else think this is slightly prejudiced and islamaphobic? At the very least the generaliztions are hollow and based on fearmongering tactics spearheaded by US.

I could start playing the stupid fact game

Its called doing you research chucky.

"Islam will dominate the world
Islam is the only solution
Islam will dominate the world
Islam is the only solution
Takbeer!
La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur Rasool Allah"

Hmm so does this mean we have to believe verbatim all self righteous proverb spit out by practising catholics, christians, jewish, etc etc since the beggining of time? If we start now Im sure we could burn every peice of religeous dogma in about 200 centuries. Because of course if your going to focus on piece chucky, you ARE going to focus on them all right?

NATO WAS attacked and had to respond. Afghanistan had the unanimous vote of the international community due to the troubles it had....Have we not heard of that regime? Stoning women and girls to death who went outside without their facecovers? Ever heard of a clitorectomy? Sounds like a nice regime to me..especially a GOVERNMENT controlled and encouraged terrorist nation

So when the US switched operations to ionvade Iraq, the war on terror was finished? But then it wasnt, and Canada joined in? And then through around "peackeeping" to appease the masses?

I do not argue, now nor ever of the existance of brutal crimes against humanity under both the taliban and the current northern alliance (you did know that the current Northern Alliance, US backed government is chalk full of people who have perpetuated countless crimes against Afghan people right?) And know you deviate. Is it a War on Terror, or a war to liberate the Afghan people? They both can exist in the same place. And lastly, somethign you have ignored since the beggining - The statements from the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan. How come the largest and longest running humanitarian movement IN AFGHANISTAN doesnt agree with some drunken popping and locking asian kid in Canada?

Are they terrorists too? Or are Afghan people so pathetic they cant fight their own battles? Last time i check there are essentially no accounts in history of a foreign military force invading a country for the benefit of domestic social justice, and have it last longer than a day

Look what the us did for japan for example. Or germany, etc etc.

As such we do have a commitment to return the region to some form of stability and repair infrastructure.

The US saved Japans economy from collapsing in the 80's. They are carpet bombing Afghanistan. But asides from this, how can their be a war on terror AND a commitment to restructuring Afghanistan? When will this start? If almost 80% of NGO's and NPO's in Afghanistan have left as a result of the dangerous conditions do in part to the war, when does the restructuring happen? Once again what does giving foreign business tax breaks for 8 years, and letting them take 100% of the profits out of state have to do with helping the Afghan people? Tim hortons is going to save them?

Afghanistan is not being attacked under BS pretenses, or does intenational concensus and NATO all of a sudden become totally irrelevant to any of you.

Yes, NATO is irrelevent as just as corrupt and self serving as the UN security council.

im curious as to what you guys think would be an appropriate response to the 9/11 attacks then. Since that is what spurned afghanistan.

Hehe, you're losing it chucky. It has been stated time and time again, that the current mission in Canada was for the purpose of restructuring and peacekeeping. WHICH one is it going to be this week?

The problem is there is no pulling out now. It was unanimously decided by the international community that Afghanistan under its current regime, was intolerable in its governments its actions. The world agreed. This is not just me saying so.

The UN, security council and NATO does not represent the international community. They represent Imperialist government and capitalist interest.

The situation as it stands is not doable for a complete withdrawal of the occupation. Canadian soldiers there are noted for NOT being an occupying force and try to do so in all aspects. Down to the fact that they were mismatched camouflage, notice that? Dessert uniforms mixed with the standard dark green. They specifically did this to be SEEN. They want the people to know that they are there and not trying to be hostile.

So the US is fighting the war on terror, and Canada is not being hostile? Right! Hence why every major road has been bombed out, over 20 children have been killed since this year, and their are almost as many military checkpoints as there are in Palestine.

What is at stake here, is that the fact that now that we have this league of brainwashed, suicidal zealots bent on the destruction of the western nations. It is not an arguable fact, terrorists have made it a clear point time and time again that the destruction of the modern western world as we know it is their ultimate goal. There is no negotiation with them, there is no barter, there is no trade. TO think that a peaceful solution can be achieved is akin to turning a blind eye to the truth. Never have I heard yet of a feasable peaceful solution to the proper removal of terrorism. They cannot be negotiated with, plain and simple.

Im not going to touch this again. I just wanted to highlight it once more.

There is NO peacekeeping, the UN is useless. We now have realized there is only peacemaking.

Sweet jesus what the fuck does that mean?

ANd with all this granola munching, left wing socialist commentary from the peanut gallery thrown at me, its almost like you all outcast me because i dont fit into your idealistic and rebellious ideas of sociopolitical interest. Strange how i feel like im 16 again rebelling against sometihng, when you all consider yourselves rebelling for the right cause.

Wait a minute! I though you came here for respectable debate?

Ive countered most of your points without any disses or cusses, or being mean. I would appreciate it if you attempted to counter mine. You can be as mean as you want. I personally think you came on this board, threw down some aggressive, racist bullshit, and you have been backpeddling since.

You want to make a point, back it up.

Your turn-

[Chuck]

still talking?

[Chuck]

I think i called it even a while back.

Were done, and can sip some beers and sleep well knowing we all still stand for what we believe, and shared insights into those beliefs. All who agree I hope feel the same way, that despite contradicting viewpoints, within our community we can still act as one.

You may continue your verbal masturbation session if you so desire.

[Ryan Ross]

Originally Posted by sidekick

ohhhh yeah, i was walking by the VAG a few weeks ago

hehehehe. Did you poke it?


...sorry, couldnt help myself.

[Turns]

hahaha

My impression of this thread -

1) Subject: Canada extends an exsisting military operation.

2) Somebody mentions Iran then Israel, Iraq, Religion, Race, Terrorists and secret clubs that controll the world.

3) ?

4) Finally it comes back to 'the terrible terrorists' - Sorry but I hate that misleading term more than most current buzz words...

Suddenly there seems to be no point in talking more at all as the thread descends into an intelectual pissing contest... - I really appreciate that Fable posted this though because it's an important piece of history that we chose to oficially stick it out. Whether you are for or against the use of our armed forces for whatever reason.

A lot of people had their hands in making afghanistan the mine-field it is now. Somebody needs to help the country. It's an old warzone with todays propaganda. As with the rest of the region the situation has become so protracted and bitter over time that for us all to come to an equal understanding it would be more than amazing. It's unrealistic.

Why isn't anybody going to blame the Russians?
I guess the cold war was Bush' fault ;)

Anyway - i hope that I haven't offended anybody with my rambles here.
We are all entitled to our opinions.

Have a good day,
JimmyTea

[fable]

Originally Posted by Turns

hahaha

My impression of this thread -



Suddenly there seems to be no point in talking more at all as the thread descends into an intelectual pissing contest... - I really appreciate that Fable posted this though because it's an important piece of history that we chose to oficially stick it out. Whether you are for or against the use of our armed forces for whatever reason.

A lot of people had their hands in making afghanistan the mine-field it is now. Somebody needs to help the country. It's an old warzone with todays propaganda. As with the rest of the region the situation has become so protracted and bitter over time that for us all to come to an equal understanding it would be more than amazing. It's unrealistic.

Why isn't anybody going to blame the Russians?
I guess the cold war was Bush' fault ;)

Anyway - i hope that I haven't offended anybody with my rambles here.
We are all entitled to our opinions.

Have a good day,
JimmyTea

Turns, next time you are in town give me a shout and I'll bring you out to a few events and we can chat over some brews with other heads who are active organizers in town.

"Intellectual pissing contest?" No, that would be Noam Chomsky and Dennis Miller going head to head, and interjecting with plugs for their next book deal. Or UBC political science students/proffs debating over double espressos with extra foam. Intellectual pissing contests could also be national think tanks publishing case studies. What an intellectual pissing contest ISNT is regular people challenging each other preconceptions, and knowledge of how the world works in a capitalist structure.

Even if I do think most of chucks comments where based on mainstream media news, and prejudiced assumptions of practicing Muslims, and people of the middle east, these conversations need to be had. I wasn’t pulling out facts, figures, history and current accounts of oppression because I like to look smart, as I would rather be completely stupid and not have the world in the state it is right now.

My problem is my temper in the face of ignorance. Thinking we need to continue war in the middle east as a deterrent to the possible terrorist Islamic take over of the western world is just that, ignorance. Argument based in no fact, no precedent, nor any intimate knowledge of the most marginalized peoples on this globe is NOT a recipe for objective, informed analysis. You disagree with this?

Furthermore to challenge your belief that someone needs to do something in Afghanistan, I ask you one question. How about letting Afghan people decide what they need to do and how, without being under the shadow of western military occupation? Too extreme? I think before we can analyze the feasibility of such a belief we need to shed decades upon decades of western arrogance.

Because like I said before, if the main movement for humanitarian rights in Afghanistan is condemning the occupation, than what right do we westerners have to disagree (this being in a situation where the occupation ISNT based on economic annexation - of which is completely false)

And no, not a lot of people had a stake in Afghanistan’s current reality. Only the US, Canadian, British and Russian administrations played any significant role throughout history, and the relatively small ultra violent Afghan faction that brought violence to west.

The truth, is that what is going on in Afghanistan is only on component of behavior, and oppression that is deeper and long lasting than most people like to confront.

We know why things are they way they are, and in the face of this truth, we allow our governments to stick to age old practices of war and occupation. But in a sense, because of this, such war and occupation will soon be exposed for what they really set out to achieve. That being control of another countries economy, and respective opportunities for further production of wealth.

[Chuck]

Due in part to the fact taht you at least acknowledge your somewhat inane temperment, i will say this.

I will respect your viewpoint as written.

However, I no longer have a desire to continue. Take it as you please, i have made my peace.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Blunted

hehehehe. Did you poke it?


...sorry, couldnt help myself.

you siiiiicko. haha.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Chuck

Due in part to the fact taht you at least acknowledge your somewhat inane temperment, i will say this.

I will respect your viewpoint as written.

However, I no longer have a desire to continue. Take it as you please, i have made my peace.

Chucky you've been mentioning you're done and no longer want to post for the last five posts!?

The only thing that prevented you from looking like the largest uniformed, uneducated fearmongering racist WAS MY inane temper.

You want to start talking about "community of one" then try READING about other cultures that you know nothing about, or better yet why dont you IMMERSE yourself in the communities of the marginalized and oppressed - or more simply put perhaps a few rounds of the "stupid fact game" might do you well.