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May 18, 06
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Good. I fully support our troops and commitment to the fight against terrorism. ESPECIALLY in Afghanistan. Do not get Iraq and Afghanistan confused. Afghanistan has PROVEN to be in need of foreign assistance. The only ones fighting, if you havent noticed, are Taliban Terrorists hiding in the mountains, the Afghan PUBLIC arent dancing in the roads hanging Canadian troops from bridges like in Iraq. I am quite sure they welcome the changes, freedoms and progressions brought to them. Canada plays an important role here, as a deterent to the Taliban forces whom have left the country in its dilapitated stone age. Canada once had, and still has a proud VOLUNTEER millitary tradition. Our troops are there because they want to be there. Only reason I see these things pop up in threads and the news is due in part to the death of a FEMALE soldier. is --> HER <-- life because SHE is FEMALE more important than any otheres? Get with the modern times folks.
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May 18, 06
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-Iraq and Afghanistan confused? What was the first thing that Paul Bremmer do when he landed in Iraq? What was the overall chain of events? 1)Military Invasion/ Wide Spread Bombing campaigns 2)Laying off 300, 000 state employees with no financial renumeration 3)Massive power shortages, relative shutting down of the entire state economy 4)Setting up of wide spread network checkpoints and fragmentation/isolation of communities 5)Elections that where under strict control and threat of violence that saw a miniscule amount of the entire population showing up 6)Coalition backing of three major ethnic groups exclusively, against the other two and separate time during the campaign All of these events have taken place in Afghanistan as well. Quote:
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May 18, 06
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You must spread some Karma around before giving it to $userinfo[fable] again.
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May 18, 06
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Good. Someone has to help those People rebuild their Nation.
Not much of a War going on if you ask me. Iraq however has degenerated into consistent low-intensity Warfare.
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May 18, 06
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These people are the type that would probably dance for joy...
If canada pulled out of Afghanistan, the Taliban retook power and anounced on international news that the western powers had been defeated. Then in a couple more bombings of major western centres...maybe some of these people would have someone they know die. Naaaaaaah, theyd justify it with tinfoil hat conspiracy that fighting known terrorists that openly admit to commiting mass murders against western nations due in part to their religious fanaticism is wrong. Oh wait, didnt Osama say he is a terrorist that openly bombs and destroys and targets european and western countries? YES he did! Well, i guess we should do nothing about it and let him be on his way. After all, were new age hippies with no backbone. Peace love and hippiness. Lets let them regroup and attack again!
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May 18, 06
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^^^
Did you ever think that maybe invading their homelands might encorage new people to join the terrorist regime?? Or perhaps even give them a breeding ground and live battle field to recruit and train on? They won't bomb more because "we" leave, they'll bomb more the more they are able to convince new people to join the struggle as more and more people become afraid of western military occupation/destruction. No one is saying that Osama is a good guy, but you have to consider where his views come from, and more importantly how this sort of military action serves to only strengthen these views.
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May 18, 06
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^ The removal of the Taliban I can wholeheartedly agree with. One of the most oppresive Governments ever.
When you can't even fly Kites?! C'mon... it's best that those people have been removed so that Children and Women can have the opportunity to flourish to their full potential without an Ironclad Fist of hardcore Conservative Islamic Law looming over them.
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May 18, 06
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Canada should be there - I remember Princess Dianna's arguments in the 90's to try and get anyone at all to look at the country in it's post cold war state. That's why the people do not dance and dismember our troops corpses on a bridge... On the other hand of course it's part of the US imperialist grand strategy outlined by the current administrations neo-conservative administration. That's obvious! Iran has Iraq and Afghanistan on either side geographically. They pretty much own the middle east now which was the whole point in gaining an advantage internationally. Iran is not going to be a pushover like Iraq at all. Remember that the US was selling weapons of mass destruction to Iraq in order to fight Iran. That didn't work and the US invaded Iraq shortly afterward when the truce was called Saddam decided to attack kuwait for messing with the cost of oil after the war. He couldn't pay his debt and there was no way to put the army on unemployment.. Sometimes you just have to use that army and peacekeeping was not Saddam's thing at all... Oh yeah and a few years earlier he gassed a whole city of his people - but that was truely some time before it was used as a reason for the gulf war. When it comes down to it maybe it's best to have our troops in a place that they can make a difference. It's also good to use your army when you have it and keep them up to date with curreent fighting practices and landscapes. Afghanistan is Canada's part in the international effort against terrorism. Terrorism being as as ambiguous as 'cool' and other buzz words of our time. The liberals sent our troops there and the conservatives are moving foward with it. That should be enough to pruve that no mater who we vote for we will be there. I'm not sure what you are arguing. Maybe I'm not sure what to say at all but WW1 started with trouble in the Ottoman - I wonder what WW3 would look like as it starts up? Will we see it coming or just know it's here when a continent or two is under new rule and many countries are fighting? </rant>
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May 18, 06
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^ Also you failed to mention the fact that the United States has also supplied Arms and Expertise to the Iranians in the 1970's. Iran is the only other Air Force in the World that owns a small number of the F-14 Tomcat.
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May 18, 06
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Only strengthen their views?!!?!? You have to be joking me right? Fanaticism under allah has proven time and time again that they dont CARE whether you bother them or not, they want to DESTROY you. And Israel, and all of the modern western world. You REALLY believe these people would sit down and sip their coffee and ride thier camels if we pulled out? NO. Fanatic Islamists are bent on the destruction of the western world plain and simple. NOt only that, but they would get the idea that attacking us would be even EASIER because we WOULDNT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. What we need is a margaret thatcher approach. Fuck you, you fuck with us, we fuck with you. NOne of this pussyfooting shit about we were friends back then and now you attack us so were gonna sit here like ducks and take your shit because we deserve it and allah is almighty.
I could start playing the stupid fact game and copy and paste a billion internet speaches from these people that would make you realize this............but im tired of arguing this time and time again. Go read any matter of speaches from Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan by millitant leaders there. They plan and attack FOR ALLAH. They use the fact that we attack them as fuel to their fire. See the catch? Even if we DID NOT do anything, they will still perform their acts of terrorism. They attack us, we attack back, they claim we are commiting crimes against them. No game buddy. Here, read this, wow, right in america? Lets kill all the homosexuals and jews! Mushroom cloud for america! Allah akbah! We want peace of course! http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006...srael_at_1.php Oh wait, now Iran is having a terror summit. Lets openly meet with internationally known terrorists! Makes our government look credible and of course, makes us look like we want peace even MORE! OH wait, i thought WE bred terrorists as mentioned...not Islamic fundamentalist regimes?!?!?!?! Cant be! Tell me it aint so! http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...147683,00.html Dont believe the GOVERNEMENT RUN ISLAMIC STATE BREEDS terrorism? http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...path=News/News I love it when we allow people to sing and dance such words in a free country. Should be treason. "Islam will dominate the world Islam is the only solution Islam will dominate the world Islam is the only solution Takbeer! La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur Rasool Allah" Sigh, here we go again. Last edited by Chuck; May 18, 06 at 02:08 PM.
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May 18, 06
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Yes, I agree that something needed to be done to get at the people who were involved in 9/11, but you seriously need to consider what the ramifications are of launching a war on a community thats already extremely apprehensive of western intentions. Quote:
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Lets use the fact that some people act like pricks to invade them! Quote:
Im not saying we should just pull out, but you seriously need to consider what creates the extremist sects. They arent just pissed off because its hot and they hate freedom. ps. Im not speaking about Iran, the situation there is boiling over to a point that's not looking good. But, again, why is it getting that way?
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May 18, 06
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Tell me then, what is YOUR plan for world peace?
You have said nothing about YOUR ideas yet and im eager to hear them... If you mention sanctions or UN even once i will have lost all credibility to your involvement in this discussion. You know its true as well. So go ahead, its your turn to speak. And yes, Canadas involvement in afghanistan is a war on terror. You seem to think were tearing apart the country looting and pillaging. Remember this.... NATO WAS attacked and had to respond. Afghanistan had the unanimous vote of the international community due to the troubles it had....Have we not heard of that regime? Stoning women and girls to death who went outside without their facecovers? Ever heard of a clitorectomy? Sounds like a nice regime to me..especially a GOVERNMENT controlled and encouraged terrorist nation. Of course you have to overthrow it...ONce again, how DO you take over a government as such that openly supports and breeds terrorists to attack other nations? Write them a letter? Get the UN to have a dozen meetings on how bad they are and tell them that? The fact that there is so much damage to their infrastructure now is partly our fault. It has always been held that in a time of war, you are responsible to the civillan population once you take the territory. Look what the us did for japan for example. Or germany, etc etc. As such we do have a commitment to return the region to some form of stability and repair infrastructure. As a side note - the taliban are still our enemies. By supporting al quieda they have attacked us, and are attacking our forces still. It's not like we just woke up and decided to go there one day, there WAS a reason behind it. ANd once again, these fundamentalists ARE there. And yes we are going to ELIMINATE THEM before they do anything about it. Whether the world likes it or not, these people exist, even you acknowledge this. ANd until the likes of you come up with a brilliant plan and stop your bellyaching about things with nothing better to say about the situation yourself, things will go the way they are. End of story, and bravo to our fighting men and women. Last edited by Chuck; May 18, 06 at 03:27 PM.
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May 18, 06
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Obviously I'm not going to outline a step by step guide for world peace, but certainly it doesnt involve invading other countries under bullshit pretenses. The reason Im talking about this shit is that so many people, "the likes of yourself" (in your words, sure is fun lumping people together) seem to be totally oblivious to any reasons as to why the rest of the world wants to blow up the states, and there are shitloads of them. In order to stop agressions against the west, the west needs to stop aggression (not just war, but sanctions ect.) and general penis waving against the rest of the world. The route of one upsmanship, and of brute force can only lead to somewhere that none of us want to go. Theres no one step plan, and to be honest I am more speaking about the Iraq war than Afganistan (even though this thread is about canada in afganistan, I just got on a bit of a rant). I do think that the international community needs to be listened to, though I do agree that the UN needs some (errr, a lot) of work in order to be effective. Bottom line, address the underlying issues instead of glossing over them by paying attention to the loudest voices. If thats too much bellyaching, then you're welcome to bomb my house (but you should consult the UN first).
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May 18, 06
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>If the US wanted to save Iraq, then why did they lay off 300 000 state employees with no severance as the invasion began? Why did they carry out similar actions in Afghanistan. Why does Afghanistan have some of the worst humane statistics in the world (since the invasion began) What does building a fucking Tim hortons have anything to do with fighting terrorism? What does giving foreign business obscene tax breaks and free reign have anything to do with fighting terrorism? Quote:
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>CHUCK your a 16 year old kid, with a kindergarten grasp of anything. You are racist, violence monger and arrogant. You took the buzz word terrorist and ran with it, and incorporated into your own hateful. misconstrued misconceptions. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that you where both illiterate and mildly educationally deficient. Your comments have no basis, take into consideration no context, and sound as empty as movement republicans. Perhaps you would be better off down on the US/Mexico border rather than this board. >Keep yammering though, like i mentioned in another thread, you make my work easier. Your savage stupidity serves as a reminder to any and all, how dark things can get when you refuse to open your eyes, unplug your ears, and pull your head out of your ass.
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May 18, 06
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chuck, youre a gun toting redneck!and the very reason why our countrys gone to hell in a hand basket.you epitomize apathy and ignorance.You are a spitting image of western "culture" and a product of CNN.
keep up the good work champ.
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May 18, 06
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I love this. All of a sudden I am an illiterate, uneducated white supremacist.
I am neither white nor am I 16. Good on you folks, this thread is pointless now, as it seems to have turned into a total bs personal attack thread. I think half of fables last thread was consumed by his utter hatred of my point of view, and his desire to attempt to undermine me by labelling me a white supremacist, uneducated redneck. Afghanistan is not being attacked under BS pretenses, or does intenational concensus and NATO all of a sudden become totally irrelevant to any of you. Iraq is not being debated here. At least blunteds last post made sense. Sure Iraq was invaded under questionable pretenses and the US especially needs to check out its own foreign policy of policing the world. Definately questionable. Other than a corrupt regime of its own, there really wasnt much right to go there. No argument there. But it seems that terrorist breeding grounds who willingly support the suicide bombing of children and such all run ok by your standards. And Im still arguing a point with no counterpoint. What is your solution to terrorism other than eliminating the terrorists?
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May 18, 06
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they haven't even been able to find and kill osama bin laden. ONE FREAKIN' GUY. how can you trust them to find and kill ALL the terrorists? it's a war that was destined to lose from the very beginning.
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May 18, 06
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that's a question that i've thought about a lot. but it's so freakin' hard to answer because i have competing thoughts going on in my head about this issue. on one side i believe it was right to remove the taliban from power. it was an obviously corrupt regime that was violating human rights all over the place on a number of different fronts. removing the taliban was probably a good idea, but continued occupation...hm...not so much, i don't think.
now three years or whatever afterwards, i'm not so sure if we're carrying on the right course. it seems like the quality of life in afghanistan is falling and becoming more unstable as occupation goes forward. and i think that's what this debate is really about. not a about what the USA should have done in retaliation to the 9/11 attacks...but a look at where we are now, where those decisions have gotten us, and where we can go from here. i think those are the more important questions to be asked and answered. how can we fix this mess and make it the best possible situation for the afghan people and their country. is occupation the answer to that mess, or is it contributing to that mess? terrorism is not a person, it's a belief. you can't kill a belief with a gun. haha, i totally just paraphrased that movie V for Vendetta...but they're totally right. ideas live onward, you can't kill them, so this fight against the terrorism and the terrorist ideology is a losing battle.
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