anyone to go the: Does God exist debate at UBC?

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

i dont understand how people who actually believe in god need something like ID to confirm their beliefs. evolution and the big bang could all be processes set forth by god, they dont necessarily negate god's existence.

precisely why i hang my hat mostly in a deist fashion.

[azazel]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

that's because ALL species are transitional.

why haven't they all transitioned to humans... if we're at the top of the totem pole.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by azazel

why haven't they all transitioned to humans... if we're at the top of the totem pole.

multiple niches. one species cannot dominate every niche on planet earth.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by azazel

how about on the macro level.

like say molecule to fully formed man

We can't, because that requires a lot more patience than your average scientist has. So we go onto other things. Fossil evidence to show the different stages between. Darwin became famous by looking at the Galapagos parrots and showing similar things by displacing their environments. You can also look at the horse and the donkey. They show you a point where the species truly do diverge - They can mate and they can reproduce together, however their offspring cannot so they're not considered the same species. They're pretty damn close.

But I asked for a single testable hypothesis. You asked for evolution and I gave you one. Now where's yours for ID?

NOPE? DON'T HAVE ONE? NOT A SCIENCE.

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by azazel

why haven't they all transitioned to humans... if we're at the top of the totem pole.

they haven't because we're NOT. hierarchical thinking is pathological.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by azazel

why haven't they all transitioned to humans... if we're at the top of the totem pole.

The thought that we are at the top of the totem pole is a bit of a human delusion. Without the other animals we would die.

We have caused a few extinctions though. And we've come close with a few others. But you misrepresent what evolution means. It doesn't mean that everything eventually becomes the better thing. It means that those that don't become the better thing get killed off. And that's what "extinction" means.

Don't fight this one son. Peer-reviewed journals are against you on it.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by azazel

adaptation i'm down with. just not the whole ape to man thing.

Ape - Homo Habilis - Homo Erectus - Neanderthal - Cro-Magnum. The latter two known as "cavemen" and the former two known as "the missing links"

As for what happened to Habilis or Erectus, we don't know. The fossil evidence is too limited to tell what happened.

[esoter1c]

Elohim is plural, not singular.

Golden spiral.

That is all.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Ape - Homo Habilis - Homo Erectus - Neanderthal - Cro-Magnum. The latter two known as "cavemen" and the former two known as "the missing links"

As for what happened to Habilis or Erectus, we don't know. The fossil evidence is too limited to tell what happened.

don't worry, the Leakeys are on the case!

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by wishbone

don't worry, the Leakeys are on the case!

That's Leckie.... oh, wait... the palaeontologists.... heheh.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

And this oversimplified version of theology is the main reason that ignorant masses are starting to flock towards atheism.

Intelligent Design is really doing more to hurt theism than to promote it. Kind of ironic when you think about it.

I disagree. Intelligent Design is sort of like a Creationism lite™, it's a way of taking the theory that a divine force created life as we know it and putting it into practical, scientific terms. The intelligent designer does not necessarily need to be the Christian God. People who believe in the theory don't have to be evangelical Christians who want it to be taught in schools. It's fine to disagree with the theory, but I believe there is absolutely no connection between a rising number of Atheists with this theory becoming more popular.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by azazel

why haven't they all transitioned to humans... if we're at the top of the totem pole.

its only luck that we are on top, in a few million years we could be dead as dinosaurs.

I find it wierd that a guy who beleives in racial purity and ufos also believes in a tradionalist interpretation of the bible.

maybe you're doing this for attention or maybe your just a fucked up wierdo who probably should be taking the drugs his doctor prescribes. the latter would explain why you consistently are banned and come back with different monikers. Even FRA didn't come back with 15 different usernames.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I disagree. Intelligent Design is sort of like a Creationism lite™, it's a way of taking the theory that a divine force created life as we know it and putting it into practical, scientific terms. The intelligent designer does not necessarily need to be the Christian God. People who believe in the theory don't have to be evangelical Christians who want it to be taught in schools. It's fine to disagree with the theory, but I believe there is absolutely no connection between a rising number of Atheists with this theory becoming more popular.

ID isnt even a theory, theories are tesitble and supported by evidence. supporters of ID dont even use the scientific method, its not science.

I also love how people say its a christianity vs science arguement, science isnt a religion, its a method.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

ID isnt even a theory, theories are tesitble and supported by evidence. supporters of ID dont even use the scientific method, its not science.

I also love how people say its a christianity vs science arguement, science isnt a religion, its a method.

great point.

as for all this god shit it's really a pretty pointless debate. at the end of the day the only reason people have to believe in god is because they do.

progress is being made though. 100 years ago god was king shit and now he's on the ropes. another 100 years and I bet religion will be considered similar to mental illness.

lets face it people religion is one of the main causes of death and suffering on this planet. any good that does come from it could be accomplished without it.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Senior

100 years ago god was king shit and now he's on the ropes. another 100 years and I bet religion will be considered similar to mental illness.

I don't think the Middle east got this memo, could you please forward it to them, thx.;)

[Senior]

Originally Posted by esoter1c

I don't think the Middle east got this memo, could you please forward it to them, thx.;)

even there religion is not as strong as it once was.

[miss.myra]

Ehh you're going to make me go out on a limb here and look like I support the idea of ID. I don't. I feel that everyone has the right to believe what they like to, and that is not just limited to ideas I happen to agree with.

ID makes scientists uncomfortable because what it is ultimately saying is that there are some things that science simply cannot explain. It breaks down the very laws of nature that science is out to explain. The empiricism of science is only appropriate where empiricism is appropriate, and you'd have to admit, that is not everywhere.

There are a ton of widely accepted forms of psuedo science that do just a good a job of going sharply against scientific method that seem to offend people far less. i wonder why that is?

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by Senior

even there religion is not as strong as it once was.

Don't quote me but I'm pretty sure Islam is the world's largest/fastest growing religion on the planet.

It's easy to underestimate how much pull "God" has here in heathenland, but over there, pretty sure they still stone chicks for even looking at another guy.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Ehh you're going to make me go out on a limb here and look like I support the idea of ID. I don't. I feel that everyone has the right to believe what they like to, and that is not just limited to ideas I happen to agree with.

ID makes scientists uncomfortable because what it is ultimately saying is that there are some things that science simply cannot explain. It breaks down the very laws of nature that science is out to explain. The empiricism of science is only appropriate where empiricism is appropriate, and you'd have to admit, that is not everywhere.

There are a ton of widely accepted forms of psuedo science that do just a good a job of going sharply against scientific method that seem to offend people far less. i wonder why that is?

Dude, you're on the verge of being racist.

[miss.myra]

I'm such an asshole.

[esoter1c]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

I'm such an asshole.

Nah, you're cool like penguins, Robertson though...



What a dick !

[crackdragon]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Ehh you're going to make me go out on a limb here and look like I support the idea of ID. I don't. I feel that everyone has the right to believe what they like to, and that is not just limited to ideas I happen to agree with.

ID makes scientists uncomfortable because what it is ultimately saying is that there are some things that science simply cannot explain. It breaks down the very laws of nature that science is out to explain. The empiricism of science is only appropriate where empiricism is appropriate, and you'd have to admit, that is not everywhere.

There are a ton of widely accepted forms of psuedo science that do just a good a job of going sharply against scientific method that seem to offend people far less. i wonder why that is?

They probably offend far less due the fact religion has a tendency to explain things using blind faith. Its sort of like when you were younger and you asked something of a parent and they replied with "because". It is annoying and lacks any substance other then they say or believe it should be thus that is the way it is... imo of course :P
I do not see how ID would make scientists uncomfortable anyways... if they are true scientists then they know we obviously do not know everything and we are constantly discovering new things. If ID wants to simply explain the unexplained with the assumption that a greater being did it, then why do we bother learning anything. It sort of takes the curiosity away from humanity and pigeon holes us. I dunno.. I could be talking out of my ass as I have read very little about the subject lol

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

I find it wierd that a guy who beleives in racial purity and ufos also believes in a tradionalist interpretation of the bible.

Do you? I don't.

Originally Posted by SEAN!

maybe you're doing this for attention or maybe your just a fucked up wierdo

Both these guesses are good starts!

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

ID makes scientists uncomfortable because what it is ultimately saying is that there are some things that science simply cannot explain. It breaks down the very laws of nature that science is out to explain. The empiricism of science is only appropriate where empiricism is appropriate, and you'd have to admit, that is not everywhere.

intelligent design doesn't make scientists uncomfortable. it makes them frustrated because it's such a purely nonsensical idea. it has absolutely no basis in reality and it has no place in a rational discussion. you can rationally argue any flaws you perceive in the theory of evolution but that most certainly is not proof that intelligent design has any merit intellectually.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

The thought that we are at the top of the totem pole is a bit of a human delusion.

Depends on what you mean by totem pole, fellow Dave.

If you mean in terms of building cultures/societies/cities then we are.

If you mean in exerting power over animal and the environment then we are, as well (very much to our long term detriment)

Can you give me an example of any totem pole on which we're outranked by any other animal in any broad category?

If the totem pole consists of two entities, 1) humankind and 2) everything outside humankind then of course we're not on top.

But we're beating the lemurs, that's for sure