Helmut Oberlander, decision upheld

[Fredrick]

No matter how we twist and turn this. This person has been a Canadian citizen for 64 years! So, maybe he lied on his original application -even that does not seem to be clear! If the good man lived another 36 years would we still be blaming him for lying after 100 years?
Who among us has not made some false statement at some time or other? Even the Bible says 'He whose sleight is clean shall throw the first stone.'.
As far as I am concerned Mr. Oberlander is Canadian. As much as about 50% of the current population. If the Canadian justice system has an issue with what he did when he was 17( a minor! ) then we have laws enough to prosecute him. We do not need to extradite him to a foreign country and justice system.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Clayton.

If this is just about lieing on an appliacation for you.....why did you make this comment?.

Because your point was along the vein of "My grandfather was asked to do a lot of morally questionable stuff during the war too" as if that somehow justified a war criminal, despite the fact that it had nothing to do with war crimes.

You guys were the ones that started the whole war crime debate, it just took us 5 pages to steer you back to the real issue.

[Piquant]

Originally Posted by Fredrick

No matter how we twist and turn this. This person has been a Canadian citizen for 64 years! So, maybe he lied on his original application -even that does not seem to be clear! If the good man lived another 36 years would we still be blaming him for lying after 100 years?
Who among us has not made some false statement at some time or other? Even the Bible says 'He whose sleight is clean shall throw the first stone.'.
As far as I am concerned Mr. Oberlander is Canadian. As much as about 50% of the current population. If the Canadian justice system has an issue with what he did when he was 17( a minor! ) then we have laws enough to prosecute him. We do not need to extradite him to a foreign country and justice system.

The guy lied. Kick him out. End of thread.

[Alex]

btw I'm not a girl I'm the guy in the picture.

[Piquant]

Sorry mate! Your arguement went round in circles with no real backup or point to it, in fact you argued something that you didn't seem to have any real knowledge of. You didn't even provide statements that showed your argument was true. You remind me of a few of my ex's, I just assumed.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Clayton.

I decided to read up on this man and something caught my attention.

"In January 1943, Oberlander was awarded the War Meritorious Service Cross Second Class for his service in Special Detachment 10a and cite this as indicating a willing participation in the war crimes committed by this unit."

Now i'm not sure what to think.

My respect for you just went way up. It says something when someone is willing to argue a point, but still be open to change their opinion and not just blindly argue the point.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Alex

Can you source that law and when it was created?

BTW I'm against him being deported from a personal stance, but realize if he did lie(if he claimed he was a translator but not for what unit, I don't call that lying...) he has to be deported, regardless of my personal or anyone else's personal views.

If it was a law in 1954 that no member working for or affiliated with the SD could enter Canada, and he claimed he was not in that group specifically, then that is misrepresentation(lying) and he has no case.

Nuremburg trials for one stated it quite clearly. Citing those involved in exterminations and crimes against humanity. This is common knowledge. Are you trying to tell me you can't see the connection.

I also it find it interesting you of all people would ask for a source. Your whole time on this board, when asked to source your quotes, you have never done so.

[tiedye]

So next time I draw an obvious conclusion right away and get called a jackass, I'm just going to let it be and assume they mean, "Oh tiedye, you're absolutely right, you handsome stud you."

[SEAN!]

Alex is a nazi sympathizer, it all makes sense now.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Clayton.

Does that mean all of our living veterans who were a part of the RCAF are war criminals?.

No, i don't see that it does.

The SS was a special unit you had to volunteer for

[decypher]

Wow. Alex, the champion of neoconservatism and nazism. What a surprise.

edit: lol sean beat me to the punch.

[Courtney]

do you also think that the hollicast was made up and that it is based on fictional stories and not on historical facts?

[Clayton.]

Originally Posted by Courtney

do you also think that the hollicast was made up and that it is based on fictional stories and not on historical facts?

Where did you get that far fetched idea from?

[Courtney]

alexs's posse

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Alex

I disagree with the motivation behind stripping his citizenship. That was the point of my thread at the beginning.

What does B'nai Brith and the CJC gain by having an 88 year old man who had to make a terrible decision to save his own life, deported? He may have complied with evil, but under the circumstances most would have done the same. Go after the big conspirators, but why waste so much time and energy drumming up charges against a pawn who was played against his will?

the ss was an all volunteer group, he didn't have to join it he could have joined the regular german forces

[Clayton.]

Originally Posted by Courtney

alexs's posse

He never said or implied the holocaust didn't happen.

[Courtney]

I'm aware of that

[Clayton.]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

The SS was a special unit you had to volunteer for

Yes, but they also enslaved people and forced them to work for them.


Which is what i originally thought was the case in this guys situation. But as far as i know the waffen SS didn't award medals to their slaves/workers.

I've actually read a couple memoirs written by former members of the SS who fought on the eastern front. Interesting stuff.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Clayton.

Yes, but they also enslaved people and forced them to work for them.


Which is what i originally thought was the case in this guys situation. But as far as i know the waffen SS didn't award medals to their slaves/workers.

I've actually read a couple memoirs written by former members of the SS who fought on the eastern front. Interesting stuff.

anyway fuck the old man, im surprised alex even gives a fuck. its totally out of character for him to give a fuck about anyone but himself.

i never hear him crying about the refugees that WILL be fucked up being sent back home.

[decypher]

He only gives a fuck when he can make a weakass conservative argument about how touchy liberals are or how he's getting his change stolen by poor people.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Courtney

do you also think that the hollicast was made up and that it is based on fictional stories and not on historical facts?

Are you mentally disabled? Like honestly not to beak, but I was a community rehab worker for 2 years and I swear to god I dealt with disabled individuals who were more intelligent than you are.

[Alex]

and for the record I honestly don't care that much about the old man. The article brought up a couple points that annoy me, and it happened to be on a day where I not only was taking off of working out, but taking off of work- and my girlfriend had errands to run. I was bored, and knew I could amuse myself on here. I was right.

My main annoyance is with the CJC/B'nai Brith drudging up the past, working so hard for vengeance. It's futile, and childish. I have nothing against Jews, I simply hate it when a large group bitches, complains, and uses all of their resources to seek vengeance on anyone they can possibly perceive as doing them wrong. The Holocaust was a terrible thing, and a lot of otherwise decent people made a lot of horrendous decisions to appease and/or go along with a few who made the calls. To hunt down and try an old man who no one really knows to what extent he was involved, is ludicrous.

[tiedye]

Originally Posted by Courtney

I'm aware of that

This is why we're getting married.

[Clayton.]

You're getting married because she asks stupid questions?.

[wtf_wtf]

^ lol, there were a few good laughs in this thread