Coalition government

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

My greatest concern with this Coalition is just how far down on bended knee will they go to please (and maintain the support) of the separatists.

If you thought Quebec got special treatment before- lookout!

the bloc's roll in the coalition is ONLY in support of the coalition. They gain NOTHING. The only party that has gained in this coalition is the NDP.

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

my fear is that the coalition will royally fuck the dog on the government which will result in a conservative majority 2 years from now.

Fixed 4 u. Conservatives weren't far off, and I think enough people will be pissed by this to take them the rest of the way. Unless Harper succeeds in getting a prorogue, then all us rednecks will call him a coward and vote for God-knows-who.

Originally Posted by b0ld

the bloc's roll in the coalition is ONLY in support of the coalition. They gain NOTHING.

AAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA hehe ho...

and people call me a troll.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by Some dude

Fixed 4 u. Conservatives weren't far off, and I think enough people will be pissed by this to take them the rest of the way. Unless Harper succeeds in getting a prorogue, then all us rednecks will call him a coward and vote for God-knows-who.

The Globe and Mail was listing what the Conservative government's current options were. The only one that didn't include the phrase "Stephen Harper is forced to resign" was them getting a prorogue (asking for a prorogue and having it rejected also lead to him resigning).

So you'd better believe that's what's happening.

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by Grapes

So you'd better believe that's what's happening.

I believe he'll ask for a prorogue. Whether or not the gov. gen. grants it is another matter.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Vitamin-X

My greatest concern with this Coalition is just how far down on bended knee will they go to please (and maintain the support) of the separatists.

If you thought Quebec got special treatment before- lookout!

How is this any different to how the Conservatives acted when they first forced out the Liberal minority and after securing their own first minority? Funny, they didn't have such a problem allying with the Bloc back then....

[Senior]

so it looks like we can all agree Steven Harper has brought this on himself? time to go fall on your sword Stevie.

after reading into this for a few days I'm starting to see that this is actually quite significant to Canada and especially our political landscape. what I see happening is the Conservatives getting isolated and the center/left uniting. this is in my view the first step to a formal merger of the Liberals and the NDP. as far as the popular vote goes they have around 50+ of the country and on a riding to riding basis were the main reason neither could often win, due to vote splitting. As for the Conservatives their biggest mistake has been to alienate Quebec as it's nearly impossible to govern with a majority without having their support. and based off of what we have seen they are now unable to govern with a minority.

one thing I find very interesting about all of this is that the Conservatives are saying in French to Quebec that the Bloc has sold out their separatist values. then in English they are telling the rest of the country that the Liberals and NDP have made a deal with the separatists/Devil. in fact the Bloc has agreed to leave their separatist agenda out of this and will not have any cabinet positions.

what I have noticed over the last several days is the Conservatives saying that partisan politics need to be put aside and stability restored to government in these tough economic times. what's really funny though is that they are perfectly describing the coalition that has formed. the coalition has obviously bridged some pretty vast partisanship and will rule with a majority allowing it to move forward on a clear economic agenda.

[SEAN!]

HEY YOU BIG DUMMIES THIS IS HOW A WESTMINSER PARLIAMENTRY SYSTEM WORKS!!!

0

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Senior

so it looks like we can all agree Steven Harper has brought this on himself? time to go fall on your sword Stevie.

after reading into this for a few days I'm starting to see that this is actually quite significant to Canada and especially our political landscape. what I see happening is the Conservatives getting isolated and the center/left uniting. this is in my view the first step to a formal merger of the Liberals and the NDP. as far as the popular vote goes they have around 50+ of the country and on a riding to riding basis were the main reason neither could often win, due to vote splitting. As for the Conservatives their biggest mistake has been to alienate Quebec as it's nearly impossible to govern with a majority without having their support. and based off of what we have seen they are now unable to govern with a minority.

one thing I find very interesting about all of this is that the Conservatives are saying in French to Quebec that the Bloc has sold out their separatist values. then in English they are telling the rest of the country that the Liberals and NDP have made a deal with the separatists/Devil. in fact the Bloc has agreed to leave their separatist agenda out of this and will not have any cabinet positions.

what I have noticed over the last several days is the Conservatives saying that partisan politics need to be put aside and stability restored to government in these tough economic times. what's really funny though is that they are perfectly describing the coalition that has formed. the coalition has obviously bridged some pretty vast partisanship and will rule with a majority allowing it to move forward on a clear economic agenda.

fuck that if the liberals and ndp merge, illl have to sart voting conservative

I dont want the unicorn party runing shit, not even a school board, seanie need to eat.

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by Senior

As for the Conservatives their biggest mistake has been to alienate Quebec as it's nearly impossible to govern with a majority without having their support. and based off of what we have seen they are now unable to govern with a minority.

one thing I find very interesting about all of this is that the Conservatives are saying in French to Quebec that the Bloc has sold out their separatist values. then in English they are telling the rest of the country that the Liberals and NDP have made a deal with the separatists/Devil. in fact the Bloc has agreed to leave their separatist agenda out of this and will not have any cabinet positions.
.

I don't know what the dollar figures are. However all the money that the conservatives spent on gaining popularity in Quebec, now went to NOTHING. Harper is so wreckless that he is even pulling the plug on his own Party.

Also the conservatives minister of finance "Jim Flaherty" fucked over ontario with promissing money in the last government but NEVER delivered. And who does Flaherty report to... Harper. They turned on the 2 provinces that hold the most electoral ridings in this country. This is a political suicide.

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

HEY YOU BIG DUMMIES THIS IS HOW A WESTMINSER PARLIAMENTRY SYSTEM WORKS!!!

0

I DONT RECALL VOTING FOR NO WESTMISTER.

Originally Posted by Senior

so it looks like we can all agree Steven Harper has brought this on himself? time to go fall on your sword Stevie.

after reading into this for a few days I'm starting to see that this is actually quite significant to Canada and especially our political landscape. what I see happening is the Conservatives getting isolated and the center/left uniting. this is in my view the first step to a formal merger of the Liberals and the NDP. as far as the popular vote goes they have around 50+ of the country and on a riding to riding basis were the main reason neither could often win, due to vote splitting. As for the Conservatives their biggest mistake has been to alienate Quebec as it's nearly impossible to govern with a majority without having their support. and based off of what we have seen they are now unable to govern with a minority.

one thing I find very interesting about all of this is that the Conservatives are saying in French to Quebec that the Bloc has sold out their separatist values. then in English they are telling the rest of the country that the Liberals and NDP have made a deal with the separatists/Devil. in fact the Bloc has agreed to leave their separatist agenda out of this and will not have any cabinet positions.

what I have noticed over the last several days is the Conservatives saying that partisan politics need to be put aside and stability restored to government in these tough economic times. what's really funny though is that they are perfectly describing the coalition that has formed. the coalition has obviously bridged some pretty vast partisanship and will rule with a majority allowing it to move forward on a clear economic agenda.

Agreed on the first point.

If the liberals and NDP ever fully merge, we'll be left with a 2 party system outside Quebec. Conservatives weren't too popular in Quebec to start with, I dont see how this is a change.

I think the soon-to-be coalition could work out a budget with the conservatives, but they're too busy trying to wrestle power for themselves.

[ebbomega]

I would guess that before another election were called we're likely to see the conservative party split, should the coalition go through. People aren't so sold on the "Conservative" name in this country really, so I could see some members of the conservative party willing to split. That's really what happened when Kim Campbell lost the govt.

[Some dude]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

I would guess that before another election were called we're likely to see the conservative party split, should the coalition go through. People aren't so sold on the "Conservative" name in this country really, so I could see some members of the conservative party willing to split. That's really what happened when Kim Campbell lost the govt.

Rebirth of the Reform?

I just watched Harper's speech. Lolled at Harper spending half of it rambling about separatists. Lolled at Dion talking like a revolutionary (TOMORROW WILL BE A BRIGHTER FUTURE IF YOU SUPPORT ME!) and saying the Conservatives are doing nothing after Harper spent his other half listing the thing's they're doing. Lolled at Duceppe listing all the pay-offs the Bloc got for supporting the coalition. Lolled at Layton 'cause he's NDP and thinks he can help the economy (create jobs for the environment? Did I hear him right?). Also liked how he switched to french when even Dion spoke only english.

[.Promoter]

Ill just put it all down in plain english, without any intelligent remarks used to try and backup my opinion.

I do not like the idea of this coalition government.

I don't like it because IMO the liberals, NDP, and BLOC differ way too extremely in their policies for them to get along properly as a party. Also, anything that annoys the Bloc can potentially bring down the coalition. Something as basic as a change in transfer payements to solve the economic crisis that doesnt focus enough on quebec.

3rdly i dont think it is reasonable for the coalition to be made of more then two parties. If the NDP and Liberals had enough seats to do it with only a 2 party coalition i would be much more supportive. The fact that the Bloc, which i personally feel is a BULLSHIT party, can also get involved is ridiculous. We dint vote for the super party. The conservatives have THIRTY SEVEN percent of the popular vote, and FORTY SIX percent of the seats. That makes them a mere 13% from a majority, or 4% if you count seats.

Now as to the Bloc. I think its complete bullshit that a one province only, seperatisit party, should be able to run in National elections. If they want to seperate, fuck them, elect a provincial government that wants to do it. It isnt a national party, and it shouldnt count. And you can call me out for saying that but thats just how i feel, take it or leave it. To give quebec the ability to influence canadian politics with a party commited only to quebec is disgusting. How would people feel if there was a Ontario Peoples Party, that controlled 40 or more seats 15-20% of the vote, and was commited purely to ontario, with an open commitment to improving life for people in ontario. IT WOULD NOT GO OVER WELL. How would people feel if a party was elected that had good reperesentation in western, and far eastern canada, and was the toppled by a collection of sore loosers, and had the support of this Ontarian party, on the unwritten and unspoken understanding that things would improve for ontario at the cost of the rest of canada, or the party would collapse. THINK ABOUT THAT, youd all complain if toronto stood to gain at the cost of vancouver.

And you can argue that the Bloc has no power in this coalition, but that is a wet dream. They have more seats then the NDP, the only reason they dont get cabinet postings is because if they did, NO ONE would support it (Except of course for Quebecers) But you can bet your life savings that the Liberals, and ESPECIALLY the NDP MPS will tow the line to please Ducep, because if they stray to far from that EASTERN FOCUSED mentality the coalition will falter, and the conservatives will return in a jiffy.

As a westerner, born and raised, i cannot understand how all of you cry foul about people missing the repersentation concept, but not realising that unfortunatly for you, HARPER REPRESENTS THE WEST, AND CANADA, OMG! But seriously, his power comes from the west, with a sturdy graspe on ontario.

Just because you dont like harper is not reason to support a government that WILL NOT represent 259 of the seats elected. Because you can bet for dammed sure only 49 of the elected mps will see their people truly pleased.

I really see this as the liberals capitalizing on the crusade to crucify harper, and i understand that, hes a total dick, hes not a statesman, and he pisses alot of people off. But at least hes got some balls. Canadas political spectrum is full of pussies. Little girls and boys in men and womens suits. Hardly any of the leaders except for perhaps ducep actually have courage to propose hardline party ideas, and act to their own accord.

So i dont know

Call me ignorant, i probably am, call me stupid (Im not but hey who cares say it anyways), and call me stubborn, because yeah im fucking really stubborn on this.

Ill also point out im currently working on an economics degree, and i completely understand that Harper and the conservatives are doing the absolute wrong thing right now with concern to the economy, and i think they really need to smarten up, but taking them down is not the solution IMO. I personally feel that the conservatives WILL pony up some cash if they survive this fiasco, everyone just wants to survive, but some are a little more sore about loosing then others *COUGH LIBERALS*

[Senior]

well I don't agree with most of this but I can see where you're coming from. the whole Quebec thing just isn't that much of an issue to me though because lets face it it's business as usual. they are sucking on Canada's tit and crying about it all the while.

as far as the coalition goes though what's your beef? it's within our constitution to do what they are doing. if not in a few weeks they will still have to answer to the voters sooner or later. they are the majority taking power from the minority. I just don't want to see another election right now as I've spent way to much time and money on them lately.

Originally Posted by .Promoter

Ill just put it all down in plain english, without any intelligent remarks used to try and backup my opinion.

I do not like the idea of this coalition government.

I don't like it because IMO the liberals, NDP, and BLOC differ way too extremely in their policies for them to get along properly as a party. Also, anything that annoys the Bloc can potentially bring down the coalition. Something as basic as a change in transfer payements to solve the economic crisis that doesnt focus enough on quebec.

3rdly i dont think it is reasonable for the coalition to be made of more then two parties. If the NDP and Liberals had enough seats to do it with only a 2 party coalition i would be much more supportive. The fact that the Bloc, which i personally feel is a BULLSHIT party, can also get involved is ridiculous. We dint vote for the super party. The conservatives have THIRTY SEVEN percent of the popular vote, and FORTY SIX percent of the seats. That makes them a mere 13% from a majority, or 4% if you count seats.

Now as to the Bloc. I think its complete bullshit that a one province only, seperatisit party, should be able to run in National elections. If they want to seperate, fuck them, elect a provincial government that wants to do it. It isnt a national party, and it shouldnt count. And you can call me out for saying that but thats just how i feel, take it or leave it. To give quebec the ability to influence canadian politics with a party commited only to quebec is disgusting. How would people feel if there was a Ontario Peoples Party, that controlled 40 or more seats 15-20% of the vote, and was commited purely to ontario, with an open commitment to improving life for people in ontario. IT WOULD NOT GO OVER WELL. How would people feel if a party was elected that had good reperesentation in western, and far eastern canada, and was the toppled by a collection of sore loosers, and had the support of this Ontarian party, on the unwritten and unspoken understanding that things would improve for ontario at the cost of the rest of canada, or the party would collapse. THINK ABOUT THAT, youd all complain if toronto stood to gain at the cost of vancouver.

And you can argue that the Bloc has no power in this coalition, but that is a wet dream. They have more seats then the NDP, the only reason they dont get cabinet postings is because if they did, NO ONE would support it (Except of course for Quebecers) But you can bet your life savings that the Liberals, and ESPECIALLY the NDP MPS will tow the line to please Ducep, because if they stray to far from that EASTERN FOCUSED mentality the coalition will falter, and the conservatives will return in a jiffy.

As a westerner, born and raised, i cannot understand how all of you cry foul about people missing the repersentation concept, but not realising that unfortunatly for you, HARPER REPRESENTS THE WEST, AND CANADA, OMG! But seriously, his power comes from the west, with a sturdy graspe on ontario.

Just because you dont like harper is not reason to support a government that WILL NOT represent 259 of the seats elected. Because you can bet for dammed sure only 49 of the elected mps will see their people truly pleased.

I really see this as the liberals capitalizing on the crusade to crucify harper, and i understand that, hes a total dick, hes not a statesman, and he pisses alot of people off. But at least hes got some balls. Canadas political spectrum is full of pussies. Little girls and boys in men and womens suits. Hardly any of the leaders except for perhaps ducep actually have courage to propose hardline party ideas, and act to their own accord.

So i dont know

Call me ignorant, i probably am, call me stupid (Im not but hey who cares say it anyways), and call me stubborn, because yeah im fucking really stubborn on this.

Ill also point out im currently working on an economics degree, and i completely understand that Harper and the conservatives are doing the absolute wrong thing right now with concern to the economy, and i think they really need to smarten up, but taking them down is not the solution IMO. I personally feel that the conservatives WILL pony up some cash if they survive this fiasco, everyone just wants to survive, but some are a little more sore about loosing then others *COUGH LIBERALS*

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Some dude

Rebirth of the Reform?

I just watched Harper's speech. Lolled at Harper spending half of it rambling about separatists. Lolled at Dion talking like a revolutionary (TOMORROW WILL BE A BRIGHTER FUTURE IF YOU SUPPORT ME!) and saying the Conservatives are doing nothing after Harper spent his other half listing the thing's they're doing. Lolled at Duceppe listing all the pay-offs the Bloc got for supporting the coalition. Lolled at Layton 'cause he's NDP and thinks he can help the economy (create jobs for the environment? Did I hear him right?). Also liked how he switched to french when even Dion spoke only english.

nah rebirth of the real torries, not the ideological religious nut job conservatives

[b0ld]

Originally Posted by .Promoter

Now as to the Bloc. I think its complete bullshit that a one province only, seperatisit party, should be able to run in National elections. If they want to seperate, fuck them, elect a provincial government that wants to do it. It isnt a national party, and it shouldnt count. And you can call me out for saying that but thats just how i feel, take it or leave it.

They did elect a provincial government called the Parti Quebecois that has some ties with the Bloc. The people in Quebec voted on each referendum and the "NO" vote won. If you want to know how the Bloc got into house of commons, then I suggestion you look into the Canadian constitution and understand what a Democracy is.

I don't know happened out in western canada. However it seems that the reformists put alot of fear in alot of people as to what is happening out east. The days of the referendum and sovereignist movement is over, to discuss and mention the word separatist or sovereignist and point fingers when that movement has been dead is probably not a good idea.

Because of the finger pointing that Harper is now doing, if the sovereignist / separatist movement begins to flare up the way it was decades ago. Then HE will be the one to blame. He should be ashamed of himself of accusing canadians with rhetoric bullshit.

If you ever heard the term "You can't revive a dead horse". Well guess what... Thats what Harper is trying to do and is doing it purposely, all for his own CAPITALIST gain.

[miss.myra]

i watched harper's address to the nation last night and i was left wondering:

- Why did he fail to admit he made a terrible mistake in trying to alienate the opposition last week?

- Why has he STILL not addressed the economoc situation in Canada? All Canadians deserve action and they deserve a plan. Since Harper was elected in October he has not said/done a SINGLE thing to address the issues and that is something even the completely incompetent George W. Bush has done. Even Conservative supporters should be holding Harper accountable to DO SOMETHING.

[dj_soo]

prorogue granted :-\

nice. now we have to endure over a month of shit-slinging - especially from the cons - while absolutely nothing gets done in parliament

[miss.myra]

no kidding!

in a time of economic CRISIS the last thing i want to do is give the government a one month paid vacation while harper does NOTHING but spend millions of dollars on attack ads.

[Grapes]

Hopefully they use the mock call-in show format again. That didn't make me want to stab sharpened chopsticks into my ears AT ALL.

[rawb]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

fuck that if the liberals and ndp merge, illl have to sart voting conservative

I dont want the unicorn party runing shit, not even a school board, seanie need to eat.

THIS IS WHY WE ARE FRIENDS

[Courtney]

fuck why is everyone so against NDP

[.Promoter]

Originally Posted by Senior

as far as the coalition goes though what's your beef? it's within our constitution to do what they are doing. if not in a few weeks they will still have to answer to the voters sooner or later. they are the majority taking power from the minority. I just don't want to see another election right now as I've spent way to much time and money on them lately.

My beef is just that a 3 way coalition, with the destablizing factor of having a pro-quebec / for quebec party involved is not healthy.

We just had an election and i really dont think this coalition can last more then a few months, and i am very confident that if they do take power there will be another election, very shortly down the road.

As i said, i wouldnt be complaining if it was only NDP and Liberal and that was enough seats to unseat the cons. However its not, and this is why im upset about it.

As to the seperatists comment from someone else... until the Bloc comes out with an official decree saying that the eventual seperation of quebec from canada is not a party INTREST, and will NEVER be thought of or made an objective too, the Bloc Remains a Seperatist Party. They may not be trying to do it now, but their policy is eventual seperation. IMO that will never happen. But i just dont agree that a MAJOR part of this coalition will be a party commited only to the well being of Quebec. It is undemocratic to all other provinces, as the governing party will be under EXTRA INFLUENCE from a party that got exactly 0 votes out of quebec. Undemocratic in my opinion. I dont think the Bloc should ever be apart of a ruling party, ever, period.

I think i make that point pretty clear.

Also everyone is ragging on the cons for not doing anything about the econ crisis. Well common, its been 1 month since the election. Before the opposition topples the gov there should be time given after the threat of toppling the gov to see what the cons do to change their policies. Because their has been no indication they want to do this, its is quite obviously a POWER GRAB.

[NinjaBoy]

Parliament Suspended till January:

GG agrees to suspend Parliament

[mikey]

Originally Posted by Courtney

fuck why is everyone so against NDP

cause carol james is a Duesh bag