Who do you call when you see cops beating up some one?

[wum]

Originally Posted by cubed

The solution is making it public evidence when things like this happen. In turn it will cause the city to take a closer look at their policing techniques, thus being able to regulate such offenders in the future.

In the City of London (a city separate from greater London, kinda like the Vatican), they have their own police force that is paid for by the business proprieters. I'm a huge fan of the free market, and I've only read good things about these people, like how they won't harrass people or intimidate them for no reason since their presence is supposed to 'enhance' the atmosphere. Their goal is to satisfy the clients, who in turn want to make a secure and happy experience for the people who enter the City so they'll spend more money.

A publicly 'owned' police force has a less clear mandate. Their income is guaranteed and they don't get points for being courteous. Under our system if you get your ass kicked, your only recourse is to file a complaint which probably gets lost in the shuffle. Whereas with a private security force, the complaints are taken much more seriously (they depend on customer satisfaction :)) and they're probably cheaper too.

[Alex]

^^^exactly

[Ms.Chop]

Originally Posted by -Dubs-

u cannot be serious, i doubt the cop was beating him just for fun, something happened like he is a rapist or maybe they know and he knows he commited like a 5year + crime but the facts arn't in yet or something.....

i wouldn't stick your nose in because what can u possibly get from doing this, yeah cops are dicks and yeah they took away my week givin me stupid ass 380$ tickets but fuck man when u need something u call 911...... so dont be an idiot because this is how people get blacklisted in shit.

i dont know about disapearing that seem like movie shit to me but meh......

ur stupid..

honestly, ppl get beat by the cops for no reason sumtimes.. they dont have to have a reason..they do it.. even on false pretence's... u obviously dunno shit.. so go crawl back into that whole u call life.. and then post on fnk wen u come back to the REAL world.

[Ms.Chop]

Originally Posted by tekno_balla

you know why they beat up people sometimes? how would you like to deal with a cracked out person ? like, they have to deal with crackheads and shit, crackheads have nothing to live for besides crack, they have nothing to loose, if they come at you with a knife or whatever, there going to try and kill you, what would you do if you were a cop? read him his rights? fuck no , you would have a needle in your neck before you could say silent, ide beat the shit out of him

ye, but they beat up innocent ppl... jus cuz those innocent ppl live in the same neighbourhood or area as the cracked ppl doesnt mean u could beat on them..
they assume shit.. assuming is not good wen ur a cop.

[thebobman]

so the real question is, was it VPD or RCMP?

[FeelGood]

NWA said it best.....




FUCK THE POLICE


whenever I need you guys, you are never there or dont show, but when I dont need you guys you seem to be hasseling people.

[~god~]

Fuck the Police,
fuck, fuck, Fuck the Police,
I say fuck, Fuck em,
Fuck da Police"
-Jay and Silent Bob


its not a great saying, but it sure fits in today :)

[~god~]

obviously people get beaten by the police!!
didn't Tupac teach you anything??

[zarlon]

heh my friend was waiting for a bus outside of tinseltown at 2am, and some guy was trying to drag him into an alley and grabbing his wrists and stuff, a cop car drove by and my friend was yelling and waving his hands and they just looked at him and kept on driving.

thankfully some guy ran over from lotus to tell the freak to fuck off but, you know, police don't do much in many cases.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by wum

In the City of London (a city separate from greater London, kinda like the Vatican), they have their own police force that is paid for by the business proprieters. I'm a huge fan of the free market, and I've only read good things about these people, like how they won't harrass people or intimidate them for no reason since their presence is supposed to 'enhance' the atmosphere. Their goal is to satisfy the clients, who in turn want to make a secure and happy experience for the people who enter the City so they'll spend more money.

A publicly 'owned' police force has a less clear mandate. Their income is guaranteed and they don't get points for being courteous. Under our system if you get your ass kicked, your only recourse is to file a complaint which probably gets lost in the shuffle. Whereas with a private security force, the complaints are taken much more seriously (they depend on customer satisfaction :)) and they're probably cheaper too.

Look your obvious disdain for anything publicly owned is clear but that aside what do you think is at the base of the VPD's corrpution? Could it be anything to with Vancouver being the largest entry point for drugs on the Western Seaboard? Could it be anything to with organized crime having a major influence on the VPD?

A recent report by the Pivot Legal Society was one of the first indepth documentations of the way the VPD treats people. The report looks at the lower east side in particular but as you can see from the way other people have been treated the problem obviously isn't confined by geography. Public or private no police force will ever be perfect but I think that we do need to strengthen public over sight of the VPD. As it stands the VPD is left to investigate themselves when something goes wrong and that obviously doesn't help them to be very objective.

[automatic]

the lack of independent oversight of the VPD is a huge problem...who watches the watchmen?

[djmarkpaul]

I'm not surprised, I mean this is the reason why people were skeptical of accepting police forces in the first place. Ofcourse we were told that they were around to "serve and protect" and for a while it went this way, there needed to be good public opinion created.

Though it's plain to see, from not revealing badge numbers (which is required by law when any citizen asks) to simply pulling over people for speeding and having out of the blue checkpoints (where, I may add, there may be real criminals abound that should be dealt with but aren't), police in general have had a change in standard operating procedures.

They have gone from watching over the people, to just plain watching the people.

Note after 9/11 how in New York for instance it's not uncommon to see police that look more like military grunts, holding semi-automatic rifles and without ID numbers. Take a look at the trailer for the documentary Martial Law (Alex Jones' sensationalizationing aside) to see how bad it is there if you don't believe me. It's turning into nazi germany. It just goes to the general principal that if you give them an inch to pull, they'll take a mile. As soon as we ignore the issue of accountabilty and hand over our power for the "greater good", it's pretty obvious we are asking for trouble.

***

I hope that you can keep us updated on this Dave, and best of luck, VPD is well known for their police brutality, and our rights are what we stand up for, so you are doing the right thing. You should take a look at anti-war coalitions perhaps to help generate media attention, they definetly will have good advice for how to approach this matter, groups like MAWO for instance.



People in this thread who said this is too much to take on and just leave it be...where is your backbone? If we let this stuff continue it only gets worse, and god knows how bad it is already, in this country we still have a voice, you should feel ashamed for not using it.

[automatic]

Originally Posted by wum

In the City of London (a city separate from greater London, kinda like the Vatican), they have their own police force that is paid for by the business proprieters. I'm a huge fan of the free market, and I've only read good things about these people, like how they won't harrass people or intimidate them for no reason since their presence is supposed to 'enhance' the atmosphere. Their goal is to satisfy the clients, who in turn want to make a secure and happy experience for the people who enter the City so they'll spend more money.

A publicly 'owned' police force has a less clear mandate. Their income is guaranteed and they don't get points for being courteous. Under our system if you get your ass kicked, your only recourse is to file a complaint which probably gets lost in the shuffle. Whereas with a private security force, the complaints are taken much more seriously (they depend on customer satisfaction :)) and they're probably cheaper too.

i'm sorry, but i find the idea of private security forces extremely distasteful. i think the argument that publicly owned police forces have a "less clear mandate" to be entirely bunk, just because in some cases the police don't follow that mandate at least it IS clear, "to serve and protect the public". private security forces are beholden to the private sector that pays their salaries. The city of london is an abberation in this, being such a small (1 square mile, 7000 population) area. just look at the human rights abuses committed by private corporate security forces around the world (malaysia, nigeria and brazil for starters). bottom line is i want cops who ultimatley answer to the citizens of this country, not business.

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by automatic

the lack of independent oversight of the VPD is a huge problem...who watches the watchmen?

That's our job! People have to start taking accountability of their own society and stop expecting that the right thing will be handed to 'em.

[automatic]

^ i was talking more about the fact that when you DO file a complaint against the VPD it gets investigated by...the VPD. other forces/jursidiction usually have some sort of independent oversight committe, or are investigated by some "arms length" type of agency, but the VPD investigate themselves....not healthy.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

People in this thread who said this is too much to take on and just leave it be...where is your backbone? If we let this stuff continue it only gets worse, and god knows how bad it is already, in this country we still have a voice, you should feel ashamed for not using it.

Well said Mark. These rights that we have, that many people seem to take for granted, were won through long and hard faught battles. Look at women earning the right to vote. Workers getting rights to fair wages, safety standards, and days off. The thing is that these rights can be taken away a lot easier than they can be gotten back.

[wum]

Originally Posted by Senior

Look your obvious disdain for anything publicly owned is clear but that aside what do you think is at the base of the VPD's corrpution? Could it be anything to with Vancouver being the largest entry point for drugs on the Western Seaboard? Could it be anything to with organized crime having a major influence on the VPD?

Well if you want to go into reasons for the behavior, sure, there are tons. Unabated immigration which requires little more than a rubber stamp is just one of the problems.

Originally Posted by Senior

A recent report by the Pivot Legal Society was one of the first indepth documentations of the way the VPD treats people. The report looks at the lower east side in particular but as you can see from the way other people have been treated the problem obviously isn't confined by geography. Public or private no police force will ever be perfect but I think that we do need to strengthen public over sight of the VPD. As it stands the VPD is left to investigate themselves when something goes wrong and that obviously doesn't help them to be very objective.

The main difference is this: If the police kick your ass or destroy your property, you send in a complaint, you go through the rigamarole of discipline hearings, giving evidence, perhaps hiring a lawyer, maybe giving a press conference if the whole thing is bad enough, and so forth. In the meantime, the police department is still getting paid!

If it was privatized you simply complain to the people who are paying for the service, or if you are one of the people who are putting money into the service you threaten to withdraw your money. A loss of income is the only thing people respond to. The difference in accountability is huge.

[maztraz]

Yeah theres alot that we need to do, but we are still in the risk of it...Today

So the question still stays, Who should we call if someone gets beaten by a cop?
Cause we still have the risk..Should we beat him back, would it be any solution if someone is under that cops agressivity, that is a question we should all be asking our selfs, cause I doubt that one day if you get beating you wouldn't like that no one comes and helps you out...

I've had that experience and believe me thats a true panic moment
''Should yougo fight that cop that is beating ya friend and take the risk of going in some seriouse problemes and probably having a few chances of getting beaten as well?or should we just stay there and watch our friend get beaten?''
With no esitation
I would definitly go for the first one.....
but at that very moment you realy ignore what can happen next, I agree if we are enough to be seeing the scene we could defend our selfs farely in front of justice....but the risk is there when your small minority
(like 1 or 2)...Don't forget that the cop has much more chances of getting away with it thenyou
,and you have much more chances of going to jail for it...
Is this any fare, well I'm not sure fare will be the right word to use you will more be on your hoping then fareless rights!!!

What would you do if one of your friends get beaten by a cop for no good reasons?

This is juste a crazy thing that is more revolting for everyone of us!
When we know that our money is going into the public budget financing those cops....'

[SteveO13]

Johnny Cockrain

[Senior]

Originally Posted by wum

Well if you want to go into reasons for the behavior, sure, there are tons. Unabated immigration which requires little more than a rubber stamp is just one of the problems.
The main difference is this: If the police kick your ass or destroy your property, you send in a complaint, you go through the rigamarole of discipline hearings, giving evidence, perhaps hiring a lawyer, maybe giving a press conference if the whole thing is bad enough, and so forth. In the meantime, the police department is still getting paid!

If it was privatized you simply complain to the people who are paying for the service, or if you are one of the people who are putting money into the service you threaten to withdraw your money. A loss of income is the only thing people respond to. The difference in accountability is huge.

Oh, so the people that pay for the police force would then magically be perfectly ethical, right, now I get it! Thanks for expaining!!!!

Realize that if I was rich and you poor I would have the right to beat you the police would do nothing because I could withdraw my funding from them. The difference in accountability is huge. As it stands we have problems with the VPD that is being addressed through public input and feedback. The process is slow but at least all people involved have a say in things and not just those with lots of money.

[TrYpTaMiNe]

Originally Posted by Hemi57

Shuuuuuuuuuut uuup. You don't even know what the fuck happened and if a bunch of people are signing in ink that they saw an illegal act, you can rest assured he didn't deserve the beating.

look, im just saying in general, im stating my opinion, im sorry i wasnt there and didnt see it, im saying in general, not just this incident ok?

[stephen_c]

A recent report by the Pivot Legal Society was one of the first indepth documentations of the way the VPD treats people. The report looks at the lower east side in particular but as you can see from the way other people have been treated the problem obviously isn't confined by geography. Public or private no police force will ever be perfect but I think that we do need to strengthen public over sight of the VPD. As it stands the VPD is left to investigate themselves when something goes wrong and that obviously doesn't help them to be very objective.

ur rite, it does happen to ppl other than from the east side.
remember this not too long ago

[wum]

Originally Posted by automatic

i'm sorry, but i find the idea of private security forces extremely distasteful. i think the argument that publicly owned police forces have a "less clear mandate" to be entirely bunk, just because in some cases the police don't follow that mandate at least it IS clear, "to serve and protect the public". private security forces are beholden to the private sector that pays their salaries. The city of

Originally Posted by automatic

london is an abberation in this, being such a small (1 square mile, 7000 population) area.

They serve the “public”? You have to admit that can be a hard thing to define. Does the “public” get to decide the protocols of law enforcement? Is the “public” privy to things the work history of every police officer? No. The one’s who decide for the “public” are usually a bunch of politicians who cannot know the mind of everyone. And what they do decide will probably be a once size fits all policy.

With private security it’s highly customizable to what the customer wants. If one needs security at a high end shopping district it’s probably not necessary to have hulking guards or police dogs that would scare shoppers away. Like wise, if you wanted to set up shop in somewhere like Harlem, maybe some heavies is exactly what you need.


It would probably be cheaper too.

Originally Posted by automatic

just look at the human rights abuses committed by private corporate security forces around the world (

Originally Posted by automatic

malaysia, nigeria and brazil for starters). bottom line is i want cops who ultimatley answer to the citizens of this country, not business.

I wouldn't try to use those countries as comparisons. Haiti is a democratic nation and yet they've violently deposed all of their leaders but one, and the country is constantly in turmoil and seems to only work when there is a heavy handed dictatorship to rule over them, or if the US military comes and occupies their country, as they are constantly invited to do. Does this mean that Democracy has no basis for working? Of course not. Africa in general seems to defy all conventional Western poli sci paradigms.

My point is, we must treat what’s alike the same and what’s unalike, differently. Not all cultures or countries are conducive towards the Libertarian ideal, which is essentially one of co-operation and mutual respect.

So I think its better that you compare Western countries with Western countries, which is probably the only place it can work.

[wum]

Originally Posted by Senior

Oh, so the people that pay for the police force would then magically be perfectly ethical, right, now I get it! Thanks for expaining!!!!

Realize that if I was rich and you poor I would have the right to beat you the police would do nothing because I could withdraw my funding from them. The difference in accountability is huge. As it stands we have problems with the VPD that is being addressed through public input and feedback. The process is slow but at least all people involved have a say in things and not just those with lots of money.

The people who would pay for the service would be the ones who live in the general vicinity, say the business proprietors. Let's say it was Robson street. If someone is there just walking along for a night on the town and the police kick his ass he could easily approach a newspaper and tell them what happened. It would be all over the media, and the businesses proprietors would probably be scared as hell to lose business over this and would either fire the guys who did that or hire another security firm entirely. It would be in the best interest for the business owners to retain business obviously, so they would always be on the look out for security that was non-violent and did their job the best.

This isn't a private militia.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by stephen_c

ur rite, it does happen to ppl other than from the east side.
remember this not too long ago

Don't forget about Jeff Berg who the coroner has ruled was murdered by the VPD.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...57447229818_52