So I went to the Cecil last night...

[cubed]

I'm not discounting your original post at all.

I find it a tad on the extreme side, like I do with a lot of your posts. The world we live in has no place for such extreme stand points of black and white; we live in a world of gray. For every girl up there taking her clothes off and feeling degraded there is one that uses it as a way of empowering themselves. What it all boils down to is that you feel good about yourself at the end of the day. This is not to say that there aren't those out there being exploited to all extents. It ultimately comes down to free will, pretty much the only thing that the human being has left.

If you take life too seriously, you'll never make it out alive.

[MissMarz]

Originally Posted by cubed

I'm not discounting your original post at all.

I find it a tad on the extreme side, like I do with a lot of your posts. The world we live in has no place for such extreme stand points of black and white; we live in a world of gray. For every girl up there taking her clothes off and feeling degraded there is one that uses it as a way of empowering themselves. What it all boils down to is that you feel good about yourself at the end of the day. This is not to say that there aren't those out there being exploited to all extents. It ultimately comes down to free will, pretty much the only thing that the human being has left.

If you take life too seriously, you'll never make it out alive.

well said.everyone has choices to make, and it's their choice and noone elses. people gotta make a living any way they can. there's nothing wrong with it. everyone has their own way of doing things.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by MissMarz

hahaha my friend actuallly said , "too bad it's NOT amateaur night"
that would have been interesting.

See this is why I'm telling people to stop being so negative. Stay positive, and beautiful things can happen.

Then again, I guess if fable is right then the possibility of these girls getting up on stage and trying it out would be an example of two more innocent souls trapped by the vortext of a male dominated world rife with misogyny and explotiation and oh man I'm even boring myself making fun of him.

[fable]

I'm not discounting your original post at all.

I find it a tad on the extreme side, like I do with a lot of your posts. The world we live in has no place for such extreme stand points of black and white; we live in a world of gray. For every girl up there taking her clothes off and feeling degraded there is one that uses it as a way of empowering themselves. What it all boils down to is that you feel good about yourself at the end of the day. This is not to say that there aren't those out there being exploited to all extents. It ultimately comes down to free will, pretty much the only thing that the human being has left.
If you take life too seriously, you'll never make it out alive.

People who took things seriously are the reason why so many people are STILL alive. Free will? When did this turn into a UBC philosophy class? Fuck free will. You know how many women still get exploited daily on this planet? And this is somewhat alleviated because a few women seem to think they empowering themselves?

Im not attacking strippers Im attacking myself and all of us else for contributing to the environment where it’s an option. Empowering themselves? Obtaining money by using sexual means, or ones body doesn’t empower women, or man for that matter. The only person who has ever agreed to such a fucked up notion was the likes of Cristina Aguilera and Brittney Spears, and even then I doubt it was their words, rather it was probably the words of the marketing moguls that own their asses.

Women should have all rights to sexual freedoms and choices, and I am not questioning nor challenging it. But the context women face is one where they:

- still make 2/3 of the money that men do in jobs where they have equal to greater skills.

-still lay claim to less than 5% of political positions of authority across the world

-still make up over 90% of the "recipients" of domestic violence

-is still a relatively insignificant percentage of the labor force

-still have far less access to education

A women gets raped every other second on this planet. The rampant amount of drug addiction and physical violence within strip clubs, the world over, is sickingly high.

well said.everyone has choices to make, and it's their choice and noone elses. people gotta make a living any way they can. there's nothing wrong with it. everyone has their own way of doing things.

Your naivety helps you think it’s a matter of choice for most people to shake their boobs in your face for YOUR enjoyment. But the reality is, the LACK of choice, and an environment where this LACK of choice COMBINED with an environment where young men and women such as YOURSELF, seem to think its okay > make jobs such as stripping become a viable option. YOU, ME and US are the reason why people end up stripping, prostituting, and escorting. Because WE MAKE THE CHOICE to indulge in such services.

What’s the worst thing YOU ever had to do to make a living? If you as a women understand the amazing oppression you face on a daily basis, what do you think is more beneficial for your sisters? Indulging societies acceptance of women doing such things for money, or teaching your sisters how to fight? Because that’s what it is - a fight! While many of us sit on the fence, and make comments like you and James made, and sit comfortably knowing that we are not directly part of the problem, we in essence ignore it, or ignore those who are in fact taking advantage of women in every sense of the word.

You seem like a young, attractive talented, and driven women. I checked out some of your design, and it was pretty tight. From the words of others on this board, I would assume you're a pretty fine dj too. As a women you are beautiful and sexy, but this ISN”T your power. Those who seek to degrade and hold sway over women want you to believe your sexuality is your power solely to diminish you. They give you control over your sexuality, but put shackles on everything else. You can shake your ass, wherever you want with relative ease ( your not shot for it here) but as soon as you try to speak up, try to run a company, organizing a demonstration, fight for equal rights, make the same money as a man, politicize, speak out YOU ARE ATTACKED!

Your beauty and sexuality are to be cherished, but your power is your mind, your strength, your experience, your voice and your fists.

Acceptance of stripping was never about freedom of choice – that’s simply an arrogant, ignorant and hollow opinion that is used to make us, the customers of said “services” be able to sleep at night.

Think about it.

peace+respect
shak

[fable]

Originally Posted by Grapes

See this is why I'm telling people to stop being so negative. Stay positive, and beautiful things can happen.

Then again, I guess if fable is right then the possibility of these girls getting up on stage and trying it out would be an example of two more innocent souls trapped by the vortext of a male dominated world rife with misogyny and explotiation and oh man I'm even boring myself making fun of him.

You can make fun of me all you want. You're good at it :)

But Im not the one who is oppressed because of my sex. And im most definetly not a person who has been taught my entire life that the only thing that makes me worthwhile is my ass and titts.

[Grapes]

But Im not the one who is oppressed because of my sex.

Aaaand neither is she.

Shit jim, you got him frothing.

[cubed]

Shak, the last time I checked you didn't have a vagina. I'd say your ramblings on the subject are rather moot.

[rustybob]

Originally Posted by Kraig

How the shit do you peeps do that? Stay up till 4AM drinking and then go to work early in the morning? Sheeeiiiiit.

I still got a young liver man. There's only about 2.5 years worth of alcohol abuse on it :p

Drinking lots of non-alcoholic beverages before bed and after waking up helps too.

[MissMarz]

Originally Posted by fable

People who took things seriously are the reason why so many people are STILL alive. Free will? When did this turn into a UBC philosophy class? Fuck free will. You know how many women still get exploited daily on this planet? And this is somewhat alleviated because a few women seem to think they empowering themselves?

Im not attacking strippers Im attacking myself and all of us else for contributing to the environment where it’s an option. Empowering themselves? Obtaining money by using sexual means, or ones body doesn’t empower women, or man for that matter. The only person who has ever agreed to such a fucked up notion was the likes of Cristina Aguilera and Brittney Spears, and even then I doubt it was their words, rather it was probably the words of the marketing moguls that own their asses.

Women should have all rights to sexual freedoms and choices, and I am not questioning nor challenging it. But the context women face is one where they:

- still make 2/3 of the money that men do in jobs where they have equal to greater skills.

-still lay claim to less than 5% of political positions of authority across the world

-still make up over 90% of the "recipients" of domestic violence

-is still a relatively insignificant percentage of the labor force

-still have far less access to education

A women gets raped every other second on this planet. The rampant amount of drug addiction and physical violence within strip clubs, the world over, is sickingly high.



Your naivety helps you think it’s a matter of choice for most people to shake their boobs in your face for YOUR enjoyment. But the reality is, the LACK of choice, and an environment where this LACK of choice COMBINED with an environment where young men and women such as YOURSELF, seem to think its okay > make jobs such as stripping become a viable option. YOU, ME and US are the reason why people end up stripping, prostituting, and escorting. Because WE MAKE THE CHOICE to indulge in such services.

What’s the worst thing YOU ever had to do to make a living? If you as a women understand the amazing oppression you face on a daily basis, what do you think is more beneficial for your sisters? Indulging societies acceptance of women doing such things for money, or teaching your sisters how to fight? Because that’s what it is - a fight! While many of us sit on the fence, and make comments like you and James made, and sit comfortably knowing that we are not directly part of the problem, we in essence ignore it, or ignore those who are in fact taking advantage of women in every sense of the word.

You seem like a young, attractive talented, and driven women. I checked out some of your design, and it was pretty tight. From the words of others on this board, I would assume you're a pretty fine dj too. As a women you are beautiful and sexy, but this ISN”T your power. Those who seek to degrade and hold sway over women want you to believe your sexuality is your power solely to diminish you. They give you control over your sexuality, but put shackles on everything else. You can shake your ass, wherever you want with relative ease ( your not shot for it here) but as soon as you try to speak up, try to run a company, organizing a demonstration, fight for equal rights, make the same money as a man, politicize, speak out YOU ARE ATTACKED!

Your beauty and sexuality are to be cherished, but your power is your mind, your strength, your experience, your voice and your fists.

Acceptance of stripping was never about freedom of choice – that’s simply an arrogant, ignorant and hollow opinion that is used to make us, the customers of said “services” be able to sleep at night.

Think about it.

peace+respect
shak

honestly, there are so many different directions a woman can go to make money. she doesnt have to strip AT ALL. there are so many centers that help women in need find suitable positions, and yet they go back to stripping, because they fucking choose to. they like attention, they like the money, they like the rush. I'm not bashing this position, if they want to do it, let them, someone has to.

whats wrong with that. guys strip for the very same reasons and u dont see guys getting all defensive about their rights. its just a job. people clean sewers, pose in playboy, do medical testing, and they know their job is dirty, but someone has to do it. i am a strong woman, and i understand that the male dominates and we have a less superior role. but honestly get over it, look how far we've gone. people accept other people no matter what they do for a living.

i know a couple girls that went to my highschool, they're full out strippers at brandies now. and they love it. i'm proud of them. they really put on a great show, some may say its a form of art. it's really not that easy either i mean its a crazy work out.

obviously the women that do that sort of job for a living are ok with it. they are comfortable with their sexuality, their bodies whatever. they have to be. if they didnt like any aspect of their job they wouldnt do it, i understand there are those forced into working there by gangmembers etc.. but for those that choose to be there, u cant be putting up fights for them when its clearly just a business.

[fable]

Originally Posted by Grapes

Aaaand neither is she.

Shit jim, you got him frothing.

Bullshit. All women are oppressed in some fashion or another because of their gender.

[Vitamin-X]

I'm sure that when a hot chick jumps the line at a club she feels
very very oppressed!
LOl

[fable]

Originally Posted by MissMarz

honestly, there are so many different directions a woman can go to make money. she doesnt have to strip AT ALL. there are so many centers that help women in need find suitable positions, and yet they go back to stripping, because they fucking choose to. they like attention, they like the money, they like the rush. I'm not bashing this position, if they want to do it, let them, someone has to.

whats wrong with that. guys strip for the very same reasons and u dont see guys getting all defensive about their rights. its just a job. people clean sewers, pose in playboy, do medical testing, and they know their job is dirty, but someone has to do it. i am a strong woman, and i understand that the male dominates and we have a less superior role. but honestly get over it, look how far we've gone. people accept other people no matter what they do for a living.

i know a couple girls that went to my highschool, they're full out strippers at brandies now. and they love it. i'm proud of them. they really put on a great show, some may say its a form of art. it's really not that easy either i mean its a crazy work out.

obviously the women that do that sort of job for a living are ok with it. they are comfortable with their sexuality, their bodies whatever. they have to be. if they didnt like any aspect of their job they wouldnt do it, i understand there are those forced into working there by gangmembers etc.. but for those that choose to be there, u cant be putting up fights for them when its clearly just a business.

The male stripper comment is irrelvent, we are talking about GENDER issues, where women find themselves on the bottom rung in so many environments. Im glad you know a few strippers, I know many through the course of my work and my past life. but Im not attacking or challenging the strippers themselves. They represent a product of a mindset and entrenched exploitation.

When I talk about being "forced" into specific jobs, im not talking about gangs, im talking about the more prevalent psycho-social issues.

But at the end of the day, although I believe men have a resposibility to show solidarity to womens struggle, all this would be better coming from a women and not me. You should come out to an event sometime, and meet some of my female comrades. Most are in leadership positions and are super cool. Im sure you would hit it off with alot of them.

peace+respect
shak

[MissMarz]

Originally Posted by fable

The male stripper comment is irrelvent, we are talking about GENDER issues, where women find themselves on the bottom rung in so many environments. Im glad you know a few strippers, I know many through the course of my work and my past life. but Im not attacking or challenging the strippers themselves. They represent a product of a mindset and entrenched exploitation.

are u serious?

[fable]

Originally Posted by cubed

Shak, the last time I checked you didn't have a vagina. I'd say your ramblings on the subject are rather moot.

Man, james somehow you managed to get more ignorant since highschool.

Im obviously not a women, and therefore I obviouslly dont have a vagina. But I am involved with womens rights movements, that are anything but the stereotypical butch dyke feminists, and I will show, and continue to show support until im dead. My mother and sister are accomplished womens rights activists (low level) and both have been vicitms of sexual/physical abuse, office sexism, and everyday gender oppression. I, like all men, should take a personal interest in womens rights. In the end Im pretty convinced its them that are going to improve the bullshit around us.

Perhaps you need to spend some more time with the ladies of your life? Or at the very least start understanding that the fact that you are white, and male, has put you in a position of reletive ignorance.

I think you could benefit from less wit, and more research.

[fable]

Originally Posted by MissMarz

are u serious?

Reference to a specific time of my life (14 years)

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by fable

understanding that the fact that you are white, and male, has put you in a position of reletive ignorance.

Soooo basically because he's a White Anglo-Saxon Male that makes him ignorant?

/devils advocate

[Vitamin-X]

^^ Naturally, and not only that!
It also makes him the worlds Evil Overlord!!!!!!!!
:prince:

[cubed]

Originally Posted by fable

Man, james somehow you managed to get more ignorant since highschool.

So because I don't agree with your views on this subject it makes me ignorant?

Im obviously not a women, and therefore I obviouslly dont have a vagina. But I am involved with womens rights movements, that are anything but the stereotypical butch dyke feminists, and I will show, and continue to show support until im dead.

By all means continue doing so, but in no way should you think you have any idea of what it's like for all women in this society. That's the problem with a lot of these activist movements, it's the voices of few trying to speak for the masses. When really they have no clue about what the masses want to say.

SEE MY GRAY WORLD COMMENT EARLIER IN THE THREAD.

My mother and sister are accomplished womens rights activists (low level) and both have been vicitms of sexual/physical abuse, office sexism, and everyday gender oppression.

Good on your mother and sister, and it's a shame they had to experience that.

I, like all men, should take a personal interest in womens rights. In the end Im pretty convinced its them that are going to improve the bullshit around us.

Familiarizing and grandstanding are two separate things. In no way should you be speaking on behalf of the females out there doing these things. It's not your place to tell them what is right and wrong. This is a decision that should solely be left to the individuals.

ONCE AGAIN SEE GRAY WORLD POST MADE EARLIER IN THIS THREAD.

Perhaps you need to spend some more time with the ladies of your life? Or at the very least start understanding that the fact that you are white, and male, has put you in a position of reletive ignorance.

That is probably one of the largest ad hominems I've ever seen you spout off. I'd say my understanding on the difficulties for women is pretty good. I was raised in a single parent family for the better part of my life by my mother. In no way do I feel the need to subject my thoughts on how these women choose to live their lives. Not once has my mother been subjecated because of her sex in the workplace. After years of work she holds a prominent position in the administration at the UBC School of Music, it was her hard work that put her there above many males.

I think you could benefit from less wit, and more research.

The only one degrading women in this thread is you.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by fable

All women are oppressed in some fashion or another because of their gender.

That's a keeper.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by fable

Reference to a specific time of my life (14 years)

You spent 14 years as a male stripper???

And to think, you have the cheek to then turn around and degrade the profession that provided for you for so long.

[J o e l]

Originally Posted by Grapes

You spent 14 years as a male stripper???

And to think, you have the cheek to then turn around and degrade the profession that provided for you for so long.

BHAHahah^^^

Wow this threads a gog show

I just wanted to read about some strippers now we have a full on rights this and that ignorent him n her....


for the record, strippers rule

[Grapes]

^ Misogynistic oppressor!!!

[J o e l]

Ive been called worse by better

[mapleleaf4ever]

Originally Posted by J o e l

for the record, strippers rule

Then you'd love Montreal.

I'm going to be making a Field Trip there with some Friends, see if they really live up to the Hype.

[J o e l]

french strippers eh?

at least theyre french Canadian so theyll proly shave
*shudders @thought of harry stripper*

let us know how that goes erik

by the way...where the hell have u been as of late....and dave for that matter??