Massive Electronic DJ Competition

[Phrenetic]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

ableton is dope as hell but it leaves alot to be desired for djing....

Im wondering whats desired using ableton in a live setting, its insanely customizable and the audio and midi is route-able in anyway you would like.

I should post my the template im building right now, its 4 main channel strips with routing to 4 outs on my motu so each main channel goes out to the 4 ins of a club mixer like the DJm800. Also 4 Auxillary on the side with loops ive built orginized in 2/4 and 4/4 quantization.

Master buss has a compressor im working on for live use and the UC-33 handles send and return and (with masking tape) controls some EQ on the auxilary channels if needed.

Clips will be handled with the APC40 when i get it, been on order for a while.


TLDR : arguing what ableton can do compared to the plasic medium

[Phrenetic]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Sex Attack threw down a wicked ableton set at LLW last year.

Ableton is like Live PA (which makes sense since a lot of people use it to control their Live PA rigs). You can decide your level of performance involvement in it. But to be perfectly honest, if you're not doing something real-time about it then you stand a really good chance of losing your audience. Part of the performance of DJing is being able to read your crowd.

Able LIVE was built with live performance in mind, All it does is record and launch clips be it midi or audio. Live PA's are rarely live anyways

[-evil-duerr-]

Originally Posted by Phrenetic

Im wondering whats desired using ableton in a live setting, its insanely customizable and the audio and midi is route-able in anyway you would like.

I should post my the template im building right now, its 4 main channel strips with routing to 4 outs on my motu so each main channel goes out to the 4 ins of a club mixer like the DJm800. Also 4 Auxillary on the side with loops ive built orginized in 2/4 and 4/4 quantization.

Master buss has a compressor im working on for live use and the UC-33 handles send and return and (with masking tape) controls some EQ on the auxilary channels if needed.

Clips will be handled with the APC40 when i get it, been on order for a while.


TLDR : arguing what ableton can do compared to the plasic medium

sounds like you know what you're doin mate, you might be interested in this article if you have'nt seen it yet. Smart Mixing Setup for Ableton at djtechtools.com

pretty interesting stuff i'd love to give it a shot. once i get a bit more gear idealy i'd like to route Traktor into Ableton to take advantage of both worlds.

the main note of contention for me with ableton is the amount of prep that one HAS to do so they can perform a dj set (Warping,Sequencing ,setting up your filters etc). Other dj software like traktor,itch,torq require little to no prep to begin mixing tunes once you start up the software and load the decks. The other deal breaker for me is no pitch bend in ableton for the option of manual beatmatching.

I'm curious to see what will come of the ableton/serato partnership because ableton and serato compliment eachother well. combine the strengths and i have no doubt it would be the toughest contender for new dj software.

[Phrenetic]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

sounds like you know what you're doin mate, you might be interested in this article if you have'nt seen it yet. Smart Mixing Setup for Ableton at djtechtools.com

Cool ill give that a read

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

pretty interesting stuff i'd love to give it a shot. once i get a bit more gear ideally i'd like to route Traktor into Ableton to take advantage of both worlds.

Midi over Lan is something you should look into for that, you would be able to sync 2 laptops/Pcs and the bpm would match for traktor and Live. But on the same machine i dont really know... There is a program like Traktor called "deckadance" that can run as a VST within live, it could be a solution.

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

the main note of contention for me with ableton is the amount of prep that one HAS to do so they can perform a dj set (Warping,Sequencing ,setting up your filters etc).

Its pretty simple, it takes about 30-40 seconds to warp a track using the metronome and warp markers. Only becomes problematic if the bpm dips or you want to play a vinyl rip. ARGGG!!!

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

Other dj software like traktor,itch,torq require little to no prep to begin mixing tunes once you start up the software and load the decks.

yea but those pieces of kit are just fancy media players that are controlled by a plastic things with sound that goes Beeeeeeeep. it doesnt off custom fun stuff really. Ive only used time controlled stuff once and i hated it.

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

The other deal breaker for me is no pitch bend in ableton for the option of manual beatmatching.

In Live 7 & 8 theres 2 bendy buttons at the top left that are midi assignable that resemble the bitch bend buttons on the denon cd players. its pretty neat if you have to go from cd to ableton or vice versa

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

I'm curious to see what will come of the ableton/serato partnership because ableton and serato compliment eachother well. combine the strengths and i have no doubt it would be the toughest contender for new dj software.

yea im wondering what will come of that as well

[-evil-duerr-]

[quote=Phrenetic;2042908]
Midi over Lan is something you should look into for that, you would be able to sync 2 laptops/Pcs and the bpm would match for traktor and Live. But on the same machine i dont really know...
[quote]

word the plan is to get another laptop with audio interace and controllers... one day!

yea but those pieces of kit are just fancy media players that are controlled by a plastic things with sound that goes Beeeeeeeep. it doesnt off custom fun stuff really. Ive only used time controlled stuff once and i hated it.

and turntables and a mixer aren't fancy media players?.... not really sure what your point is dude.. aren't you controlling ableton with a "plastic thing".... i can't say for torq and itch, but you can use Traktor with standard dj mixers/tables or the "plastic things" just the same. I'm afraid you're still sharing the sentiments of digital djs 2 years ago, recently top djs all over the globe are getting behind Traktor and I doubt it's just because of endorsements- it's fantastic software and stands tall amongst the competition.

[ebbomega]

Fun fact: Richie Hawtin has an application for Traktor that posts each track he is playing in real-time to twitter.

[-evil-duerr-]

^ ya i heard about that ! what a sweet idea

[dj_soo]

[quote=-evil-duerr-;2042911][quote=Phrenetic;2042908]
Midi over Lan is something you should look into for that, you would be able to sync 2 laptops/Pcs and the bpm would match for traktor and Live. But on the same machine i dont really know...

word the plan is to get another laptop with audio interace and controllers... one day!



and turntables and a mixer aren't fancy media players?.... not really sure what your point is dude.. aren't you controlling ableton with a "plastic thing".... i can't say for torq and itch, but you can use Traktor with standard dj mixers/tables or the "plastic things" just the same. I'm afraid you're still sharing the sentiments of digital djs 2 years ago, recently top djs all over the globe are getting behind Traktor and I doubt it's just because of endorsements- it's fantastic software and stands tall amongst the competition.

actually, some of it's endorsements. I've seen craze still play on serato long after he was made a spokesperson for traktor.

anyway it's all a matter of personal taste for some. I'd rather see a surgeon like Z-Trip or Cut Chemist manipulate 2 decks and a mixer than see someone like ritchie hawtin press buttons or tweak knobs.

Both are performances in their own way and both require different skillsets.

[inside]

Originally Posted by Wood

All that says to me is, you've reached the minimum skill level to make a passable mix set and decided you don't need to push yourself any further. I know lots of veteran DJs who still put blood, sweat & tears into making a mixtape. Put more work into your mixes & the promo will come easier.

don't get me started on the auto-mix sofware either, that isn't DJing

Well everyone has thier own style. I'm happy with my skill level and style with djing, and I don't have the time or natural skill to be an A-Track which is fine by me. I'd rather spend the time producing and getting tracks out.

[ebbomega]

^ Bad comparison. You don't need to strive to be a world-class DMC champion to have room for improvement.

[inside]

Originally Posted by Avana

says the guy who isn't getting gigs to the guy who is getting weekly paid gigs out.....


hrrmmmmm....

ez what I don't have in experince playing shows I more than make up for in tech know how.

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by inside

maybe getting to the point where you have enough skill to lock down a good mix is hard work, once you have the skill it's nothing. Promoting yourself as a dj/producer is harder work for me, i hate it!

[/facepalm]
a good mix is much more than just stringing random good tunes together. a good mix has tunes that play off each other, are in key, create a story and have a theme.

[inside]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

^ Bad comparison. You don't need to strive to be a world-class DMC champion to have room for improvement.

I think that's all that's left other than getting experience playing out and getting tracks signed.

[-evil-duerr-]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

2042908]



actually, some of it's endorsements. I've seen craze still play on serato long after he was made a spokesperson for traktor.

anyway it's all a matter of personal taste for some. I'd rather see a surgeon like Z-Trip or Cut Chemist manipulate 2 decks and a mixer than see someone like ritchie hawtin press buttons or tweak knobs.

Both are performances in their own way and both require different skillsets.

ya about the endorsements bit i believe it, i just meant it's not the only reason for a few of them.. i remember when i first saw the new ad campaign from NI featuring GrandmasterFlash +Hawtin (among others) it seemed really cheezy and I didn't buy it... but a few of them are still rocking it and loving it so I was proven wrong.

i prefer shelling out duckets for turntablism shows over edm dj shows too just because obviously it's gonna be a bit more of a spectacle, but that shouldn't detract from what the edm djs are doing.

I'm still wondering why the big name turntablists generally prefer serato over traktor scratch>?... I can't do turntablism to save my soul so don't have an informed opinion about that.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by inside

ez what I don't have in experince playing shows I more than make up for in tech know how.

This kinda gets to the heart of what people are saying to you. And that's that tech know-how doesn't replace intuition or artistic feel, and never will. And if you think it can, you're never going to progress past your current point.

Art is never perfect, and you can never stop learning. The second you do is the second that you've given up on the art.

[dj_soo]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

ya about the endorsements bit i believe it, i just meant it's not the only reason for a few of them.. i remember when i first saw the new ad campaign from NI featuring GrandmasterFlash +Hawtin (among others) it seemed really cheezy and I didn't buy it... but a few of them are still rocking it and loving it so I was proven wrong.

i prefer shelling out duckets for turntablism shows over edm dj shows too just because obviously it's gonna be a bit more of a spectacle, but that shouldn't detract from what the edm djs are doing.

I'm still wondering why the big name turntablists generally prefer serato over traktor scratch>?... I can't do turntablism to save my soul so don't have an informed opinion about that.

a mix of feel, reliability, user interface, and just it being the industry standard (kind of like using Technics vs a set of Vestax or something). The 57 i think plays a big roll too having a high-end scratch mixer from one of the premier mixer companies with the serato integration helps.

[-evil-duerr-]

^word... i've had a go with serato a few times and my favourite thing about it is that it doesn't require you to make googoo eyes with the monitor to know what you're doing. The biggest complaint i hear about computer djs from club goers is the "checking email" effect it has on the physical appearance of the performance. I'm sure people will get used to it eventually, but it still looks a bit awkward imo.

Originally Posted by kir mokum

[/facepalm]
a good mix is much more than just stringing random good tunes together. a good mix has tunes that play off each other, are in key, create a story and have a theme.

this is really good advice... some djs are great at giving their sets a cinematic feel by building their sets based on rules of plot structure. I caught Kid Koala a few years ago and he demonstrated this better than any other dj i've seen.... twists and turns.. laugh.. cry... dance. cheer. it was just so epic and he did it all with a bit of music and panache.

It's the difference between riding a rollercoaster or riding the ferris wheel at the carnival.

[inside]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

This kinda gets to the heart of what people are saying to you. And that's that tech know-how doesn't replace intuition or artistic feel, and never will. And if you think it can, you're never going to progress past your current point.

Art is never perfect, and you can never stop learning. The second you do is the second that you've given up on the art.

your putting words in my mouth.