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Aug 13, 06
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a musician is someone who can use an instrument to create new music. by "new" that music doesn't have to have been *written* by the musician, it just cannot have existed before the musician made it so. example: using a turntable to scratch out "Frere Jaques" = musicianship. using a turntable to play a recording of someone else's music != musicianship.
a good musician is a person who has learned an instrument to the point of fluency, where they can convey a complex emotion through music - the stronger and more complex the emotion, the better the musicianship. it's very much like learning a foreign language; the better you get, the better you can express yourself. I have yet to hear a scratch DJ play a song that made me feel sad or lonely, but I do not disagree that it is possible. just my opinion. 
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Aug 14, 06
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At the very least, DJ's are composers. We choose the flow of a set and how long a segment we want from each song. We may not make the music, but we think about it so often that we gotta find interesting new ways of mixing one song with another just to keep stuff fresh. There's gotta be SOME musical ability in that (even if it's not formal like playing the violin or piano). I mean... if DJ's aren't musicians... then why do they dedicate ourselves to music?
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Aug 14, 06
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unless you're doing some impressive scratching, or doing a very unique mashup (Z-trip or DJP), you're no musician.
krpyde mentioned the idea on the front page of someone playing the piano but someone else's music. (lol 3 years ago). DJ's are like the people who would turn the pages in the music book, not playing the piano lol.
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Aug 17, 06
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don't know if this was brought up, but, live P.A. you know is droping loops in and out and mixing it up threw a laptop(usualy) but if those loops wern't made the the live P.A.ist is that his music because he's esentaily filtering them and changing them but the did not create them(sometimes).
think about that!
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Aug 17, 06
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there's no honour in doing a live-pa with someone else's loops. that's called a "laptop DJ set", and anyone with a basic understanding of dance music can do it.
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Aug 17, 06
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i dissagree, there are so many differnt AMEN breaks in this world theres no way ever that you could be like "oh, thats so'n'so's amen" unless it's delibrate like using tech itch's famos amen, but evan then it would be difficult to prove it...thats the thing about live P.A. your changing the sound on the spot (hopfully) making it yours.
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Aug 17, 06
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its a really tough topic. because some dj's make a real art out of mixing, without doing any scratching, or going the way of mash-up.
and then some DJs dont.... and give club style mixing a bad rep. Without a doubt, it takes musical talent and ability to manipulate mixer effects in a crafty enough way to convey the effect of creating a new track or even remix, by simply blending/mixing two tracks using effects like delay, beatmashing and looping, filters and eq. I think it's wrong to say "if you dont scratch, your djing lacks creative merrit". Or if your not trying to be the next Mike Relm or Ztrip and do mash up sounds your a no talent bum. That's completely untrue. The world doesnt need anymore Mike Relms or Ztrips than there already is . I really dont want to get sick of such unique artists because people are getting the wrong idea about what good djing is (and a whole mass of half assed copy cats flood the scene). "Wikky Wikky Wa"and hearing depeche mode being mixed with NWA isnt necessarily what makes or breaks a dj.
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Aug 17, 06
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nobody is saying DJing isn't a creative art in itself, or that there isn't a wide range of artistic ability in DJs, just that DJing itself isn't musicianship.
think of it like this: musicianship is like painting, and DJing is like photography. both are visual arts, and both require skill. nobody is arguing that photography isn't art, just that photography isn't a style of painting.
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Aug 17, 06
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imo, DJ's arent musicians.... they're DJ's.
A DJ who can incorperate an instrument into his or her act though, would be a musician. Mind you, I think if a DJ is mixing harmonically, or using any form of musical practise or theory to beef their technique, they could be consitered a musician... you know, getting right technical with what said person is doing.. not just 'safe' mixing at a beginner level.
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Aug 18, 06
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okay. this has been a really good discussion.
This is the conclusion I've drawn from all the points. musician= writes/performs music dj= mixes recorded music basically DJing isnt making music, unless you are manipulating rhythm and or pitch by using turntablism techniques - the result, something completely new. Kid Koala is a fine example of this exception. although it takes keen ears and musical ability to do quality mixing, an entirely different set of skills are required to write and perform music. So the two must be seperate.
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Aug 18, 06
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I actually asked Anne Savage this question when I was chatting with her in Miami. It turns out that she played in a punk band for a breif stint and she said that being a musician is not the same thing as a DJ. Being a DJ takes way less skill.
I agree with her. All you do is push plastic discs around in a circle...
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Aug 18, 06
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turntablism is more difficult than club mixing, but they are two entirely different ways of using turntables/mixer . You can't really compare the two because they are seperate set of skills/style. music can be made with turntables/mixer, or it can simply be mixed. You cant compare Kid Koala to Armand Van Helden because they are trying to achieve two entirely different effects, but with the same instrument. only turntablists manipulate their tool to the point that it does become a musical instrument by its own merrit. Rhythm and melody can be achieved with tooling around with decks and mixer. Last edited by -evil-duerr-; Aug 18, 06 at 04:24 PM.
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Aug 18, 06
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ok. so let me get this straight what you all have gotten out of this?
DJs (although technically a musician who plays other peopls music just like someone on a piano or with another instrument playing other peopls music) is not a musician, they are artists. Producers are musicians. DJs in DMCs, who scratch, cut and whatnot can be musicians! Did I get that right? Not gunna get into the argument. I half way agree with everything said on thus far. DJs are musicians, just like any other. As mux said. They are using an instrument to play already written music. However, I do think many DJs give themselfs to much credit for being able to beat match! Producers are were its at in this term. Writing your own stuff is the tops in that regards. Personaly, I know as I get better, I try more and more to do unique things or find new ways of playing my records. Not sure if Ill ever do the whole scratch thing to an extream, but I like to play around and have fun when I mix and not just stick to plain old beat matching. I just have fun. Whatever that may seem to everyone is fine. I know Im working on writing my own stuff as well. Nothing yet I think I can call really professional, but Im still learning.
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Aug 18, 06
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If you're using a turntable to play a *new* piece of music, that didn't exist before you made it happen (ie, scratching out "Happy Birthday" using a record of Fatboy Slim's "Rockefeller Skank"), you're a musician. If you're playing a record of "Happy Birthday", you're a DJ, not a musician.
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Aug 18, 06
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I still think its a forum of it though. But I agree that its over rated. I guess, depending on how you look at it. Either way, sorry for the mis-quote I dont personaly care to much what people look at it as though. Personal, I like to play records and if people like what I play then I can play it for them and everyone can have fun. And like I said, I like to learn new ways of doing it and being creative when I play, as long as its fun! And Im learning the production side of things. And getting into other forms of live production. If that makes me an artist, musician, producer, whatever, fine. I just call it having fun and playing music. Last edited by project.one; Aug 18, 06 at 05:06 PM.
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Aug 18, 06
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For starters I think what makes Relm and Z-Trip stand out more than anything (versus other skilled/tallented artists) is they aren't genre whores. DJ's take note, no one wants to hear 2 hours of music that all sounds the same. That's probably one of the biggest reasons that top 40 DJ's get more pay/play with 1/100 of the skill is that they are mixing across genres and keeping people entertained.
But this topic is already dead imo.
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