Legal Question Regarding Tipping

[veN]

This thread is giving me a headache.

[ebbomega]

Here. Take two of these

[Grapes]

Little. Yellow. Different.

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by Lush

Did it occur to you that sometimes, on a busy night at a restaurant or bar the kitchen gets backed up and the food might take longer than normal?.

The managers should be prepared for these kind of situations. On-call shifts, extending shifts, etc. Obviously there are circumstances where it's inevitable but I'd appreciate a server mentioning at the beginning of the meal something along the lines of "I just wanted to let you know that we're a little backed up in the kitchen right now, so it may take an extra few minutes for your food - I apologize in advance". So often I find myself sitting in a restaurant thinking "What the fuck? 40 minutes for a fucking salad? There is no cooking involved in my salad! Jesus!" It's the server's job to communicate with me.

I'm always the first person to inform a manager when service is unacceptable or food is sub-par, and I'll always tell them to ensure the tip I leave goes to the correct party.

Lately I have had some horrendous experiences in terms of service at restaurants in Vancouver, to the point where I just don't ever feel like going out for food anymore. Oh well, I guess it's just saving me cash in the long run.

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by Erin

Wrong. You tip out based on how many sales you do. So if you sold $1000 in a night, you tip out based on that. If a table doesn't tip you, then you are tipping out of your pocket to serve that table. It would be nice to only tip out based on if you were tipped on a table or not, but it isn't like that. If you don't tip, you are costing severs money. Don't be cheap. :)

I know that this is going to make me sound like a huge bitch, but, GOOD! I have had experiences so horrible at restaurants that in the end they should have been paying me to sit there and actually finish my meal. Those god awful people 1) should not be in the service industry and 2) don't deserve a tip whatsoever. If they have to tip out the bar, kitchen, etc. then they shouldn't be acting like rude, snotty bitches to their customers!

[bebu*funfun]

sorry i skipped a few posts, but just reading this as someone that just stepped out of the restaurant industry...WOW how do restaurants get away with this?! I think in the end of the day the restaurant owners are happy that they racked in lots of money with the food and drinks, while they are getting cheap labour...while the servers are happy that they get to take cash home every day. Its a win-win, but just step back and look at in the big picture.. regardless if someone tips you or not, as a server you should never have to pay to serve a table (assuming your guest doesnt know the canadian 10-15% min. rule, or simply did not enjoy the food). For example if you serve a table of 10 and you're new at the restaurant, so that is your only table and they dont end up tipping... you have a chance of being paid 6-7 dollars an hour that hour. A little illegal? I wonder if this whole tipping out thing is thoroughly checked out... As an server i just understood the rule and followed it, never really asked any questions. but come on..take a step back.. what a strange industry. Also as a server it is unfair to assume your guests to know your tip out percentage or even how it works.. in the end they are there to enjoy some food/drinks and a good atmosphere. A tip should ALWAYS be treated as a bonus and not a mandatory in the pocket. People dont know how to be grateful anymore... hmm

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Carrie

well then you shouldn't be in a business based on paying someone out of your own wage when they get a wage themselves.


if a server does an excellent job, i will tip and then they don't have to tip out to the kitchen. if they did a shitty job then it's their loss that they have chosen a job that punishes them for not getting enough tips.

I don't. :)

As for the rest of your post. Sometimes I wonder... Do you read before you post? TIPPING OUT IS MANDATORY. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TIP THEM OR IF YOU EVEN TIP THEM, THEY HAVE TO TIP OUT TO THE KITCHEN, BAR TENDERS, HOSTS AND DISHWASHERS. There did I get through to you? And again, if it was such a shitty job they you feel you need to charge them money for serving you, then let their manager know. It will go alot further then costing someone money.

On a side note...

Carrie, have you ever worked in a restaurant? Have you ever worked with the public? I bet if we had you serve for 1 week then you would have a much different view on things. It might even make you a nicer person. :) Just an idea.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Grapes

I always tip as long as the service is adequate. More if it's good, less if it's bad. This isn't fucking rocket science, I can't believe we're having this discussion for so many pages.

That said, you can't say you haven't heard of a place not tipping out, because you just did 2 pages ago.

I understand you mean "until now", it's just that when you don't tack that on, it sounds like you're trying to ignore d1vas post because it doesn't fit with your argument.

You're right. There was an example that 1 restaurant does exist that doesn't have tip out. However, knowing as many people as I do in the service industry, I happen to know that at least 98% of restaurants have a tip out. I'm not ignoring any post. I'm just saying that she has 1 place that doesn't do it out for how many 1000's.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Erin

I don't. :)

As for the rest of your post. Sometimes I wonder... Do you read before you post? TIPPING OUT IS MANDATORY. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TIP THEM OR IF YOU EVEN TIP THEM, THEY HAVE TO TIP OUT TO THE KITCHEN, BAR TENDERS, HOSTS AND DISHWASHERS. There did I get through to you? And again, if it was such a shitty job they you feel you need to charge them money for serving you, then let their manager know. It will go alot further then costing someone money.

I think her point is moreso, DEAL WITH IT, you'll make other tips within the night, right? So on average you don't end up in the red. But if a server is giving ridiculously poor service then it's their damn fault that they have to tip out the kitchen from their own tip jar. Next time don't be a bad server and you don't have to tip out from your other tips.

At least, that's what her point is. It's valid even though I don't necessarily agree.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Carrie

you can't sustain a living on 8$ an hour, but it's not my responsibility to top you up to 10$ an hour out of MY hourly rate. Do you think it's fair to take my money that I've earned? Your job is to serve me. My job is to be an accountant. It is not my job to pay you. Ask for a raise, if you don't get one then reconsider your career choice.

no offense to anyone in the industry, this is my opinion.

Again... Places don't give raises BECAUSE you make tips. Therefore, if a server was to go and ask for a raise, they would be turned down. I'm not saying it's right for the restaurant owners/managers to do that (obviously) however, that is the way it is. So stop being a cheap ass and tip your servers! After all, they are bringing your food and drinks and they have to deal with whatever shit you give them. I ask this question again Carrie, have you ever worked in the food industry? :)

[Erin]

Originally Posted by galaxie

I know that this is going to make me sound like a huge bitch, but, GOOD! I have had experiences so horrible at restaurants that in the end they should have been paying me to sit there and actually finish my meal. Those god awful people 1) should not be in the service industry and 2) don't deserve a tip whatsoever. If they have to tip out the bar, kitchen, etc. then they shouldn't be acting like rude, snotty bitches to their customers!

I couldn't agree with you more. And I don't care if we sound like bitches. However, not tipping them isn't go to do anything about it except make you look cheap. So instead, tip them a small tip (like 5%) and politely ask for their manager. Let the manager know everything you thought was wrong with the evening. Make sure they know you aren't after a free meal. :) Trust me, you will get more done by doing that.

Not only that... but have you ever thought that maybe this person is having a bad day? Like they just found out their boyfriend is cheating on them? Or their car just got stolen? Or someone just died? I know you are supposed to leave your problems at the door, but sometimes it just isn't that easy. Ok, I've said enough.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

I think her point is moreso, DEAL WITH IT, you'll make other tips within the night, right? So on average you don't end up in the red. But if a server is giving ridiculously poor service then it's their damn fault that they have to tip out the kitchen from their own tip jar. Next time don't be a bad server and you don't have to tip out from your other tips.

At least, that's what her point is. It's valid even though I don't necessarily agree.

I see the point. But again, if the service is so bad that you want to cost this person money, then let their manager know. More will get done, and maybe this person won't be in the food industry anymore. But I don't think it's ever right to cost someone money and take away from other tips that they have made that evening (because that's what happens when you don't tip your server).

[fritz]

Wait, why would a server ever get a raise?

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by Erin

I couldn't agree with you more. And I don't care if we sound like bitches. However, not tipping them isn't go to do anything about it except make you look cheap. So instead, tip them a small tip (like 5%) and politely ask for their manager. Let the manager know everything you thought was wrong with the evening. Make sure they know you aren't after a free meal. :) Trust me, you will get more done by doing that.

Not only that... but have you ever thought that maybe this person is having a bad day? Like they just found out their boyfriend is cheating on them? Or their car just got stolen? Or someone just died? I know you are supposed to leave your problems at the door, but sometimes it just isn't that easy. Ok, I've said enough.

I have 15 year-olds working for me who know how to "leave it at the door" (we say "lock it up!"), so no excuses for adults who can't leave their problems behind. If you're THAT torn up, call in sick damnit!

Like I said before, I always ask for the manager when I have issues, and if I think the server is undeserving of a tip, I'll ask that 100% of what I leave goes to the kitchen/bar. The opposite goes for shitty food but great service.

[Carrie]

yes, my point was that if you are a bad server I should not have to tip you out of guilt just cause you still have to tip out a percentage to the kitchen. It's not my problem, it's yours. If your job requires you to tip out to the kitchen a percentage of your sales out of your wage+tips then it's your responsibility to work hard to get those tips. I'm not cheap, but I'm not paying extra for bad service. It's like having your pet do something bad and rewarding them for it.

Tipping out may be mandatory for you as a server, but tipping you is not mandatory for me. It's courtesy to tip out 10-15% in canada, but it's not law. I do understand that servers are making minimum wage but like galaxie said, if my salad takes 40 min, then it's not acceptable.

I have not worked in the industry, my mom has. Growing up I've seen how she needed her tips because she was at minimum wage. She has always told me how hard she worked for me and my brother, and I saw how much she worked for me and my brother to have everything we wanted.

I don't want to work in the industry and my mom doesn't want me either. Thats why I am currently going to school and working in a career that doesn't require me to live on minimum wage.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by galaxie

I have 15 year-olds working for me who know how to "leave it at the door" (we say "lock it up!"), so no excuses for adults who can't leave their problems behind. If you're THAT torn up, call in sick damnit!

Like I said before, I always ask for the manager when I have issues, and if I think the server is undeserving of a tip, I'll ask that 100% of what I leave goes to the kitchen/bar. The opposite goes for shitty food but great service.

I couldn't agree with you more. :)

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Carrie

yes, my point was that if you are a bad server I should not have to tip you out of guilt just cause you still have to tip out a percentage to the kitchen. It's not my problem, it's yours. If your job requires you to tip out to the kitchen a percentage of your sales out of your wage+tips then it's your responsibility to work hard to get those tips. I'm not cheap, but I'm not paying extra for bad service. It's like having your pet do something bad and rewarding them for it.

Tipping out may be mandatory for you as a server, but tipping you is not mandatory for me. It's courtesy to tip out 10-15% in canada, but it's not law. I do understand that servers are making minimum wage but like galaxie said, if my salad takes 40 min, then it's not acceptable.

I have not worked in the industry, my mom has. Growing up I've seen how she needed her tips because she was at minimum wage. She has always told me how hard she worked for me and my brother, and I saw how much she worked for me and my brother to have everything we wanted.

I don't want to work in the industry and my mom doesn't want me either. Thats why I am currently going to school and working in a career that doesn't require me to live on minimum wage.

I bet you would see things differently if you did. That being said, I always made really good money serving. I guess I was good at what I did. :) I actually miss the tips. Those were the good ol days of cash in my pocket.

[Carrie]

Originally Posted by Erin

I bet you would see things differently if you did. That being said, I always made really good money serving. I guess I was good at what I did. :) I actually miss the tips. Those were the good ol days of cash in my pocket.

Maybe I would, but I'm not going to work in a restuarant just to change my view on tipping.

I tip when a tip is earned. If you got lots, then you were a good server. There are a lot of people in the industry that don't do their job well.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Carrie

Maybe I would, but I'm not going to work in a restuarant just to change my view on tipping.

I tip when a tip is earned. If you got lots, then you were a good server. There are a lot of people in the industry that don't do their job well.

It wouldn't just change your view on tipping, I think it might also make you a nicer person.

But again, if they don't do their job well, then tip them a small amount (5% so you don't take away from other tips they have recieved) and then let a manager know what was wrong with the service/food/drinks etc that made you not want to tip. You would cause a lot more to that shitty server/bar tender/cook then you do by simply not tipping. :) Have I said this enough? Do you think this is something you can do? Come on Carrie, you talk like you're a bitch and proud of it on here, I'm sure you would have no problem letting someones boss know about the bad service you got. :)

[Carrie]

changing where I work wouldn't make me any nicer then I already am. Ask any of my friends, I am quite nice. I have an opinion on tipping and I'm sticking to it, that doesn't make me mean.

I'm going to tip how much I want when I receive bad service. You're trying to say that I should tip just cause it takes away from their tips. WTF they know what they are doing and how it affects their pay. Whatever you say, isn't going to change what I do regarding tipping!

I'm not a bitch, I just have strong opinions and I'm not going to change them because you tell me to. Most of the time, I don't complain to a manager because if it gets that bad, I usually don't return to the restaurant.

[PwInCeSs]

I agree how harsh it is when people do not tip as the server does pay out no matter what, but as Carrie has said, as a waitress who knows they have to tip out, how you act towards the customer affects that. If a waitress forgets your drinks, is rude, pretty much forgets the table, then is it not her own fault if it comes out of her own pocket. Just because she HAS to tip out, shouldnt mean the customer does. Yes they may have to give more money out of there pocket or other tips to other staff members, but if they do there job poorly THEY are the only ones to suffer, not the rest of the staff as you stated. At a restraunt the main view of service all comes down to the waitress, a tip is something given to a job well done.
That being said, I do pretty much always tip, i can only think of one occasion where i didnt and the waitress was horrible, She forgot to even put are food order in for almost 25 minutes (when we asked her how long are food would be, if we didnt who knows how long we may have waited) Among that we were ignored and didnt get drinks for 15 minutes (this was at breakfast so im talking Coffee and Water) We complained to the manager yes, and we also did not tip, as there was no way she deserved that, no not even 5%
It really is unfair how servers must tip out regardless, but its also unfair that they EXPECT a tip no matter what.

[PwInCeSs]

And yes ive worked in the service industry, as a bartender though, not as a waitress.

[NinjaBoy]

I don't see what Carrie is doing wrong. If someone does a shitty job she doesn't tip them. I'm sure it's not that common, but it's fair. I would expect the same.

Erin, you work in the service industry. That's great, and yes, I know there is a certian way you probably act, and expect others to act. In my experience, those who work in the service industry tip amazing, but also have expectations that are too high for what they should get tipped.

And Carrie has always been great when she's come to my work.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Erin, you work in the service industry.

No I don't.

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Carrie

changing where I work wouldn't make me any nicer then I already am. Ask any of my friends, I am quite nice. I have an opinion on tipping and I'm sticking to it, that doesn't make me mean.

... That's where I got the opinion of you... :)