the violent oppression of women in islam - *GRAPHIC*

[impure]

some of the footage toward the second half of this video is pretty brutal, watching two women get stoned to death and other horrific things.

The Violent Oppression of Women in Islam - Videos - Terrorism Awareness Project


it's hard to watch but it's something that may spread awareness too.

[CodaDrummer]

Intense.

[azazel]

ka lalalalala alalalala la li!!!!

[esoter1c]

Those filthy disgusting whores deserve it.

Looking at men.

Disgusting.

[djmarkpaul]

The idea that a woman needs to wear a shawl to protect herself from the sexual nature of a man is so insulting and degrading that I am astonished to see women here in the west picking up the custom out of an apparent affinity o Islamic culture. I am all for freedom of religious expression, however when that expression is innately repressive, reforms need to be made.

Using god/cultural tradition as an excuse to subject people to torture is something we should only have to read in history books.

[decypher]

There are very sickening things going on in these tribal communities. Definitely a harsh topic and a lot of very unjust things going on. The only concern I have with the video is that it puts all Muslims into one basket. You can be a Muslim and not want to have sharia law enforced in the state or to practice patriarchy. It's this sort of clash of the civilization, us versus them type thing, that leads to xenophobia.

There's some very thinly veiled rhetoric in there such as the fear of a "global apartheid" like scheme forced upon us westerners by Islam. Anyone trying to say such a thing could ever happen is definitely working an ulterior motive. A quick google of this horowitz fellow will unveil it all for ya. Right-wing string puller with ties to bigotry, hmm.

[azazel]

kill all those moon god worshippers dead

[impure]

it really bothers me that a family will kill any girl who's raped because it's a disgrace to them.

WTF?

[azazel]

Originally Posted by decypher

There are very sickening things going on in these tribal communities. Definitely a harsh topic and a lot of very unjust things going on. The only concern I have with the video is that it puts all Muslims into one basket. You can be a Muslim and not want to have sharia law enforced in the state or to practice patriarchy. It's this sort of clash of the civilization, us versus them type thing, that leads to xenophobia.

There's some very thinly veiled rhetoric in there such as the fear of a "global apartheid" like scheme forced upon us westerners by Islam. Anyone trying to say such a thing could ever happen is definitely working an ulterior motive. A quick google of this horowitz fellow will unveil it all for ya. Right-wing string puller with ties to bigotry, hmm.

so it's 'apartheid' to separate yourself from people who want to cut your fucking head off now?

[azazel]

Originally Posted by impure

it really bothers me that a family will kill any girl who's raped because it's a disgrace to them.

WTF?

They are energized by demons.

forget rape of their own daughters. look at them lose their shit over some saturday morning cartoons.

[Revolver]

propoganda.

bleh.....

[j3rk]

am i the only one who finds hijabs hawt?

[Disco_Whore]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

The idea that a woman needs to wear a shawl to protect herself from the sexual nature of a man is so insulting and degrading that I am astonished to see women here in the west picking up the custom out of an apparent affinity o Islamic culture. I am all for freedom of religious expression, however when that expression is innately repressive, reforms need to be made.

Using god/cultural tradition as an excuse to subject people to torture is something we should only have to read in history books.

I completely disagree, the hijab can be VERY empowering for women.

It's a way of showing pride for culture and beliefs, and allows women to protect what belongs to them and them alone. Not all women enjoy being leered at all the time, nor do they want to feel overly exposed. In an era where far too many women confuse sexuality with power, the hijab is refreshing. It reaffirms that women have value as human beings, not as objects.

(Choice is one thing, force is another.)

[decypher]

^ Very good point.

[azazel]

Jihad Watch

[azazel]

Originally Posted by Disco_Whore

I completely disagree, the hijab can be VERY empowering for women.

It's a way of showing pride for culture and beliefs, and allows women to protect what belongs to them and them alone. Not all women enjoy being leered at all the time, nor do they want to feel overly exposed. In an era where far too many women confuse sexuality with power, the hijab is refreshing. It reaffirms that women have value as human beings, not as objects.

(Choice is one thing, force is another.)

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" the sheik asked.


"The uncovered meat is the problem."


"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (islamic headdress), no problem would have occurred."


He also alluded to the Sydney rapes in 2000 where four women were separately gang-raped by a group of young Muslim men, including Bilal Skaf, who originally received a 55-year sentence, later reduced.


Cleric blames women's attire for attacks - Breaking News - National - Breaking News

[Vitamin-X]

Originally Posted by Disco_Whore

I completely disagree, the hijab can be VERY empowering for women.

It's a way of showing pride for culture and beliefs, and allows women to protect what belongs to them and them alone. Not all women enjoy being leered at all the time, nor do they want to feel overly exposed. In an era where far too many women confuse sexuality with power, the hijab is refreshing. It reaffirms that women have value as human beings, not as objects.

(Choice is one thing, force is another.)

Seems to me that the hijab is more like a cloth covering to keep your
property clean/pure. Kind of like a cover for a sports car that's not being driven ( well, a sports car that you might stone to death some time in the future)

Don't want to be leered at.. Get some Sweats!
(of course some guys might have a thing for sweats)

[decypher]

Originally Posted by azazel

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" the sheik asked.


"The uncovered meat is the problem."


"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (islamic headdress), no problem would have occurred."


He also alluded to the Sydney rapes in 2000 where four women were separately gang-raped by a group of young Muslim men, including Bilal Skaf, who originally received a 55-year sentence, later reduced.


Cleric blames women's attire for attacks - Breaking News - National - Breaking News

riiight, like you don't have douchebag guys in western society trying to pull this excuse for their own twisted behavior.

[azazel]

Originally Posted by decypher

riiight, like you don't have douchebag guys in western society trying to pull this excuse for their own twisted behavior.

deflection, distraction, denial. take your pick my liberal friend.

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by Disco_Whore

I completely disagree, the hijab can be VERY empowering for women.

Maybe so, but that is probably because the women is being subjected to an entirely overt patriarchal system.

Would such conditions be present in a matriarchy?

I highly doubt it.

A hijab is not truly a symbol of power, it's sold as one for socio/political status quo...in truth it's rather a mask for empowerment (literally and figuratively).

It really only addresses a symptom of living in a man's world, and it doesn't connotate power, but rather oppression as a result.


The notion of it being a symbol of pride is actually a very strong insult if you consider how many women are wearing it as a symbol of empowerment, compared to, how many women were culled into feeling it's a symbol of empowerment (they may say they like it, even believe it somewhat, but it's not really heartfelt, they just do it out of the expectation, being the submissive female that they are). Then compare that to the women that are just straight forced to wear them against their own will.

To the eyes of a women that doesn't have the choice, the idea of the hijab being a symbol of pride must be truly insulting.

Originally Posted by Disco_Whore

It's a way of showing pride for culture and beliefs, and allows women to protect what belongs to them and them alone.

If men were more respectful and restrained themselves half as much as these women, what need would there be for these women to 'protect' themselves?

BTW...what kind of protection is a hijab gonna offer if I throw a stone at you or want to rape you?

It might offer protection from bukkake, but that's not the same culture so really don't kid yourself.


Personally I think pride should be taken in one's own achievement's for the most part, leaving cultural pride as a foundation. Seems to me there'd be a lot less fanaticism in religion if people did this, and a lot of fanaticism currently exists for the very reason that people put their pride into religious/cultural dogma more so then their own creative expression.

Originally Posted by Disco_Whore

Not all women enjoy being leered at all the time, nor do they want to feel overly exposed.

Being leered seems to be a symptom of living in a sexually repressive role though don't you think?

A hijab addresses that symptom, but provides no real cure.

Seems also that reforming the male role in sex to not be so sexually overt (so that each eye that glances [not leers] at a beautiful women exudes respect as well as attraction, instead of just an animal desire to fuck...[thus no negative connotation]) would be more respectful to men and women alike.

I don't like the idea that if I see a beautiful women that's not covered up like a ninja, I'm supposed to feel inclined to rape her as a result.

Setting such a standard to me as a man, makes me feel as though man is meant to have as much control over his sexual impulses as a dog.

This is very insulting to me.

Originally Posted by Disco_Whore

In an era where far too many women confuse sexuality with power, the hijab is refreshing. It reaffirms that women have value as human beings, not as objects.

I like that interpretation for it's optimism (and there's a good point about how women confuse sex with power there)...but in all, it just doesn't add up. If women were not looked upon as objects, there would be no need to cover them up in the first place.

Originally Posted by Disco_Whore

(Choice is one thing, force is another.)

And the fine line that separates the 2 is of the utmost importance.

[djmarkpaul]

Originally Posted by decypher

The only concern I have with the video is that it puts all Muslims into one basket.

Sure does.

Originally Posted by decypher

There's some very thinly veiled rhetoric in there such as the fear of a "global apartheid" like scheme forced upon us westerners by Islam. Anyone trying to say such a thing could ever happen is definitely working an ulterior motive.

True...though it doesn't mean that the related belief system doesn't foster fanaticism in too many people/make it any less alarming.

Originally Posted by decypher

riiight, like you don't have douchebag guys in western society trying to pull this excuse for their own twisted behavior.

How does this negate his point AT ALL?

[Disco_Whore]

mark paul:
A lot things would be different in a matriarchal society, but guess what!? We don't live in one.

If men were more respectful and restrained themselves we wouldn't have date rape, or men who beat their wives, now would we? Or any hate crimes against women for that matter.

I'm not saying that if a man looks at a woman she should assume he wants to rape her. What I want to know is what makes men think it's okay to whistle and cat call women who walk by? What about the guys in bars who grab onto women they haven't even said a word to, or even made eye contact, and proceed to try and dry hump them on the dance floor?

You're ideas are great, but they don't apply to the society we are living in RIGHT NOW. Of course things need to change, but I guess I'm just not as optimistic that they're going to any time soon.

Oh and this poem highlights what I had previously stated, I first encountered it in a women's lit class.

Object of Despair
by Fahim Firfiray

Emma is a lawyer
And so is Aisha too
Colleagues going into court
At circa half past two

Its 1 O'clock right now
They grab a bite before the trial
They chat about this and that
Conversing with a smile

Aisha is in full hijab
With a loose all over suit
Emma's in her business wear
With accessories taboot

Emma's really quite bemused
At Aisha's godly ways
She looks Aisha in the eyes
And very firmly says

You're a smart girl Aisha
Why do you wear that across your hair?
Subjugated by "man"-kind
An object of despair

Take it off my sister
Let your banner be unfurled
Don't blindly follow all around
DECLARE YOUR FREEDOM TO THE WORLD

Aisha is amazed
But not the least bit shy
She bravely puts her milk shake down
And gives Emma the reply

My dear sister Emma,
Why do you dress the way you do?
The skirt you're wearing round your waist,
Is it really you?

Now that we've sat down,
I see you tug it across your thighs,
Do you feel ashamed?
Aware of prying eyes?

I see the way you're sitting,
Both legs joined at the knees,
Who forces you to sit like that?
Do you feel at ease?

I'll tell you who obliges you,
To dress the way you do,
Gucci, Klein and St. Laurent,
All have designs on you!

In the main, it's men my friend,
Who dictate the whims of fashion,
Generating all the garb,
To incite the basest passion

"Sex Sells" there is no doubt,
But who buys with such great haste,
The answer is the likes of you,
Because they want to be embraced......

They want to be accepted,
On a level playing field
Sure, with brain and intellect
But with body parts revealed

Intelligence and reason
Are useful by and by
But if you want to make a mark
Stay appealing to the eye

You claim your skirt is office like
A business dress of sorts
Would we not laugh at Tony Blair
If he turned up in shorts?

His could be the poshest pants
Pinstripe from Saville Rowe
But walking round like that my friend
He'd really have to go

Why do you douse yourself with creams
To make your skin so milky?
Why do rip off all your hair
To keep your body silky?

A simple shower's all you need
To stay respectable and clean
The time and money that you spend
Is really quite obscene

Why do you wake up at dawn,
To apply a firm foundation,
Topped with make up and the like,
In one chaotic combination?

And if you should have to leave the house
Devoid of this routine
Why do you feel so insecure
That you should not be seen?

Be free my sister Emma
Escape from your deep mire
Don hijab today my friend
And all Islam's attire

Avoid all those sickly stares
Or whistles from afar
Walk down the street with dignity
Take pride in who you are

Strength lies in anonymity
Be a shadow in the crowd
Until you speak and interact
When your voice will carry loud

You're a smart girl Emma
Wear this across your hair
Don't be subjugated by "man"-kind
An object of despair

To use your very words my friend
Let your banner be unfurled
Don't blindly follow all around
DECLARE YOUR FREEDOM TO THE WORLD

[azazel]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

How does this negate his point AT ALL?

he probably belongs to that idiotic school of liberal thought that wants to suspend critical thinking and call all cultures and religions 'equal' for the sake of being PC.

[decypher]

Originally Posted by djmarkpaul

Sure does.




True...though it doesn't mean that the related belief system doesn't foster fanaticism in too many people/make it any less alarming.




How does this negate his point AT ALL?

Yeh I know I'm just suggesting it isn't such a global alarm like the video makes it out to be. I think it just fans the fire and by looking at who produced the video you can see the bias in there.

As for my comment about guys in western society doing the same thing, it does not negate the argument but instead focuses on a different aspect. Maybe the intensity of female suffering is linked to the developed nature of the society in which they live. The video did make a good point at the beginning when saying "social progress can be measured by the social position of the female sex." This suggests that it happens in all cultures and at different points in historical context. This video attaches this social struggle to a political motive.

Social progress is obviously good and our society has worked very hard to get where we are and is still hard at work overturning these systems. I do not believe, however, that this social progress within societies can be articulated to some sort of global jihadist threat. Sounds like more neocon rhetoric to me.

What this video does is exploit the exploited for political purposes which is why i said what i did.


And No Wum I am not a relativist. I don't believe ideology to be merely a system of beliefs that neutralizes critical discourse. I'm just showing how a bigoted/"islamofascist" right-wing yadda yadda view of feminist oppression is distorted. A better video would show the womens groups in Pakistan fighting for their rights and the little sub-pockets around the world that are fighting for social progress in their societies. These videos are out there and they do far more for advancing the conversation rather then pasting a bunch of shocking images and political ideology together. It's pure fear-mongering and I am taking a position rather then suggesting relativism like you did.

This islamofascist rhetoric has quickly become the issue of many right-wingers. How come they focus on Arab nations and not other societies? Lots of these questions need to be asked.

[azazel]

"guys in western society doing the same thing"

evidence