hi remember that time i was a parent

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Avana

thank you for proving my point. you have belittled my personal issue with the most important person in my life because it clearly isnt as important as a parent with a child.

why should someone with kids have any more rights than a person without?

They shouldn't. Everyone should be treated the same. No one should have special rights for anything. When you give certain people special treatment or give them their own set of rules etc. - that's when you get racism IMO. Parents shouldn't be treated any different then someone that isn't a parent. :)

[Ragga_Wh0re]

wow this is starting to sound like communism or facism or perhaps both.

When a precedent has been set within the company that ok's certain absences from other employees that are not parents and then the same treatment isnt given to parents when they are absent because thier child is sick...thats racism.Thats alienation,thats bullying,thats toxic management.

I wasnt missing work because I was hung over, or had a hair appoinment or to get my eyebrows threaded or to go work at my other job. All of those things have been acceptable absences from work by my co workers that are not parents. Keep in mind, any personal appointment I need to make I schedule it for a weekend. If I myself am sick...i still come into work. so like yeah or stuff.


Basically what it boils down to is Avana is aces,and all of us are infidels.

Lets all collectively grovel at her feet and revel at her awesomeness.

[impure]

Originally Posted by Erin

They shouldn't. Everyone should be treated the same. No one should have special rights for anything. When you give certain people special treatment or give them their own set of rules etc. - that's when you get racism IMO. Parents shouldn't be treated any different then someone that isn't a parent. :)

this is assuming that if she hadn't had a kid but had some other legit reason for not being there, she would have been suspended without pay or otherwise punished or even fired.
im preeeeeeeeetty sure that's not likely.


this whole argument is kind of one-sided and shouldn't be taken up by most on the board because as i said before, most of us don't have kids.

it's way to easy for us to sit here on the childless side of the fence and point fingers.

i challenge you all who are slagging parents about this topic to go take those peoples kids for a while and then come back and give us your honest opinion again.

saying and doing are very different.

[impure]

where's margie?
she might be able to share an opinion that is holds a little more merit.

[TrixX]

wow i have gone back and forth this entire thread. im pretty sure that caring for a sick mom is the same as caring for a sick child, it is someone that you love and needs help, it is still family. although i understand that children cannot care for themselves(especially younger children) but depending on how sick an adult is, they too can reach that level of helplessness, its not fair to judge which one needs more caring for.

that said i understand that parents shouldnt necessarily be given "special rules" but there should be a little more understanding about having a sick child that is unable to care for itself than someone who takes "mental health days"(no offense erin, just the example im using LOVE YOU, i have mental mental days lol).

i think all Val is saying is that her employer IS willing to give special rules for people whose excuses are completely incomparable with tending to a sick child. regardless of how you think EVERY workplace should run, she is talking specifically about hers and how she is NOT being given these same rules for a much better reason.

[impure]

Originally Posted by TrixX

wow i have gone back and forth this entire thread. im pretty sure that caring for a sick mom is the same as caring for a sick child, it is someone that you love and needs help, it is still family. although i understand that children cannot care for themselves(especially younger children) but depending on how sick an adult is, they too can reach that level of helplessness, its not fair to judge which one needs more caring for.

that said i understand that parents shouldnt necessarily be given "special rules" but there should be a little more understanding about having a sick child that is unable to care for itself than someone who takes "mental health days"(no offense erin, just the example im using LOVE YOU, i have mental mental days lol).

i think all Val is saying is that her employer IS willing to give special rules for people whose excuses are completely incomparable with tending to a sick child. regardless of how you think EVERY workplace should run, she is talking specifically about hers and how she is NOT being given these same rules for a much better reason.

my point was more that your emotional bond and feelings about your parents is so very different than those for your child.
both are still love but in two ways that are not comparable.
i believe it's similar to maternal instinct. i just can't quite describe my ideas well right now.

Originally Posted by impure

my point was more that your emotional bond and feelings about your parents is so very different than those for your child.
both are still love but in two ways that are not comparable.
i believe it's similar to maternal instinct. i just can't quite describe my ideas well right now.

who are you?

how do you begin to quantify what i am feeling or my feelings towards my mother?

[TrixX]

Originally Posted by impure

my point was more that your emotional bond and feelings about your parents is so very different than those for your child.
both are still love but in two ways that are not comparable.
i believe it's similar to maternal instinct. i just can't quite describe my ideas well right now.

different yes.......any less significant?? NO

i love my entire family unconditionally, all for different reasons and in different ways but none of them are any less significant than the other.

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

wow this is starting to sound like communism or facism or perhaps both.

When a precedent has been set within the company that ok's certain absences from other employees that are not parents and then the same treatment isnt given to parents when they are absent because thier child is sick...thats racism.Thats alienation,thats bullying,thats toxic management.

I wasnt missing work because I was hung over, or had a hair appoinment or to get my eyebrows threaded or to go work at my other job. All of those things have been acceptable absences from work by my co workers that are not parents. Keep in mind, any personal appointment I need to make I schedule it for a weekend. If I myself am sick...i still come into work. so like yeah or stuff.


Basically what it boils down to is Avana is aces,and all of us are infidels.

Lets all collectively grovel at her feet and revel at her awesomeness.

you are an insufferable idiot.

you should take the very large hint your employer is giving you. clearly this isnt about your personal time with your daughter. there is clearly another motive driving the reaction. you should refer back to what fritz said cause he nailed it....

Originally Posted by fritz

When people let me down at work, the excuse doesn't change the fact that they let me down. We all have appointments and people that are important to us outside of the work environment, but I don't assume anyone wants to hear about them. Book your vacation and take emergency days off if it's important, or quit. If your work is denying you legitimate sick leave, complain to BC Labour, and then quit. Beyond that, who cares what they think?

Trying to blame having unreliable hours on your work is unreasonable, take responsibility for yourself. If you're upfront and honest about your potential schedule with your employer then no one is surprised and the situation goes away. Playing the parent card is just being manipulative, which unfortunately is quite effective.

[impure]

Originally Posted by TrixX

different yes.......any less significant?? NO

i love my entire family unconditionally, all for different reasons and in different ways but none of them are any less significant than the other.

ok, just to clarify, i never once implied that one was more significant than the other.
different.
ie. comfort levels and protective instinct.

if it were my child that was ill and i left her with someone and that illness turned out to be spinal menengitis and she wound up in the hospital that afternoon and consequently died or suffered in any way, i as a parent would never forgive myself for not being there because in my head i would think that i might have been able to do something different.
even if there's nothing i could have done, it won't change the way a parent feels about their child.

not sure that explains what i'm driving at.
and i don't really feel like explaining my ideas to a group where only 1/2 of them actually try to understand others concepts and the other half just wants to pick a fight.

*not talking about you shayna*

[TrixX]

Originally Posted by impure

ok, just to clarify, i never once implied that one was more significant than the other.
different.
ie. comfort levels and protective instinct.

if it were my child that was ill and i left her with someone and that illness turned out to be spinal menengitis and she wound up in the hospital that afternoon and consequently died or suffered in any way, i as a parent would never forgive myself for not being there because in my head i would think that i might have been able to do something different.
even if there's nothing i could have done, it won't change the way a parent feels about their child.

not sure that explains what i'm driving at.
and i don't really feel like explaining my ideas to a group where only 1/2 of them actually try to understand others concepts and the other half just wants to pick a fight.

*not talking about you shayna*

no i understand what you're saying :) i just initially thought you were implying that avana caring for her mother was less significant because she was an adult. my mistake for making the assumption.

[miss.myra]

Honestly, it's really hard for the rest of us to judge what is and isn't fair when we only know one side of the story. Then all people can do is offer their opinions.

[Carrie]

I'm home because I'm hungover and want to watch the eurocup

but it's okay.. I'm not an employee and I am my own boss.

[impure]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Honestly, it's really hard for the rest of us to judge what is and isn't fair when we only know one side of the story. Then all people can do is offer their opinions.

and you know how the saying goes.
"opinions are like assholes....."

[impure]

Originally Posted by TrixX

no i understand what you're saying :) i just initially thought you were implying that avana caring for her mother was less significant because she was an adult. my mistake for making the assumption.

cool beans, i kinda thought as much, and i totaly don't want to kick up more conflict on this topic, there's enough as it is!

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Honestly, it's really hard for the rest of us to judge what is and isn't fair when we only know one side of the story. Then all people can do is offer their opinions.

i actually just came here to showboat about how good i am at everything.

[impure]

Originally Posted by Avana

i actually just came here to showboat about how good i am at everything.

ok that's funny shit but totaly not the right thread IMO.
it would have way more lol impact in another thread, i just can't think of which one.

[Carrie]

Originally Posted by Avana

i actually just came here to showboat about how good i am at everything.

motorboat's are better

[TrixX]

Originally Posted by Carrie

motorboat's are better

lols.

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by Avana

i have worked with companies that have a zero absence policy - it doesnt matter the emergency or illness.

You shouldn't use that example as an acceptable policy. That is 100% illegal, and is a perfect example of exactly what is WRONG with the way some companies do business.

There are laws regarding sick leave, parental leave, etc. to ensure basic human rights. A parent should be able to take care of their sick kid. A daughter should be able to take care of their sick parent.

Avana, you're able to plan ahead - what I'm understanding from this thread is the situation with your mother is ongoing and you are aware in advance of times when you will need to care for her. Therefore, you have the ability to notify your employer and make arrangements ahead of time. Unfortunately, the same is not true for a little kid who wakes up puking in the middle of the night. You can't really plan for that.

Employers these days need to open their eyes and realize that people have other things going on in their lives. Work is not the be all and end all. Family members get sick, people get in car accidents, flights get canceled and you can't make it home in time for work, etc. Life has a lot of unforseeable bumps in the road - employers need to be realistic.

It sounds to me that Val's employer relies on her because she is her right-hand. I think the real problem here is that her boss depends on her TOO much and can't properly function without her. That's why it's a big deal for her to miss a day (regardless of reason) yet it's OK for other people in her office to leave early, miss days, etc.

Keep in mind here that I've run several multi-million dollar businesses and had to run short countless times in the past. Come down on your staff for missing work for legitimate reasons and good people walk out your door. Be understanding, realistic and supportive and they will work 100x harder for you. Give a little, get a lot!

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Ragga_Wh0re

wow this is starting to sound like communism or facism or perhaps both.

When a precedent has been set within the company that ok's certain absences from other employees that are not parents and then the same treatment isnt given to parents when they are absent because thier child is sick...thats racism.Thats alienation,thats bullying,thats toxic management.

I agree with this. As I said before: Everyone should be treated the same. :)

[Erin]

Originally Posted by impure

this is assuming that if she hadn't had a kid but had some other legit reason for not being there, she would have been suspended without pay or otherwise punished or even fired.
im preeeeeeeeetty sure that's not likely.


this whole argument is kind of one-sided and shouldn't be taken up by most on the board because as i said before, most of us don't have kids.

it's way to easy for us to sit here on the childless side of the fence and point fingers.

i challenge you all who are slagging parents about this topic to go take those peoples kids for a while and then come back and give us your honest opinion again.

saying and doing are very different.

Huh?! Slagging parents?? All I'm saying is everyone should be treated equal. Kids or no kids - everyone should have the same rules. :)

[Erin]

Originally Posted by TrixX

wow i have gone back and forth this entire thread. im pretty sure that caring for a sick mom is the same as caring for a sick child, it is someone that you love and needs help, it is still family. although i understand that children cannot care for themselves(especially younger children) but depending on how sick an adult is, they too can reach that level of helplessness, its not fair to judge which one needs more caring for.

that said i understand that parents shouldnt necessarily be given "special rules" but there should be a little more understanding about having a sick child that is unable to care for itself than someone who takes "mental health days"(no offense erin, just the example im using LOVE YOU, i have mental mental days lol).

i think all Val is saying is that her employer IS willing to give special rules for people whose excuses are completely incomparable with tending to a sick child. regardless of how you think EVERY workplace should run, she is talking specifically about hers and how she is NOT being given these same rules for a much better reason.

I agree with you. :) People are given a cretian amount of 'sick days' at my work. Once they are used you don't get paid for your personal days - that's how it works here. If someone had a kid and got more paid sick leave then me I would be pissed. Hence - I don't agree with certian people getting 'special' different rules then others no matter what the situation is.

If Val is at a job that gives special treatment to certian people then she should leave the job - there are better employers out there.

[galaxie]

Originally Posted by Erin

Huh?! Slagging parents?? All I'm saying is everyone should be treated equal. Kids or no kids - everyone should have the same rules. :)

I don't really think that's fair.
Do you think that handicapped people shouldn't receive help from the goverment? How about single parents getting tax cuts because they're supporting their child(ren) on one income versus two? What about student discounts and seniors discounts on certain products and services?

The expectations of her position should be fulfilled. If she can't come to work because of a sick child, but she would be able to work from home, I think an employer should be open to that. Many, many people in a range of different fields do this every day. The bottom line for employers should be that the work gets done in a timely, efficient fashion. If she can do this from home while caring for a sick child, I see no harm in it. Coming from someone who has a lot of experience managing people, this is what I see: her boss doesn't feel competant without her, and came down on her for missing work as a matter of control rather than considering the needs of the business. If she were really, really considerate of the needs of the business, she would have allowed Val to work from home.

Originally Posted by galaxie

You shouldn't use that example as an acceptable policy. That is 100% illegal, and is a perfect example of exactly what is WRONG with the way some companies do business.

There are laws regarding sick leave, parental leave, etc. to ensure basic human rights. A parent should be able to take care of their sick kid. A daughter should be able to take care of their sick parent.

if the person has taken the pre-requisite amount of time the employer is legally supposed to give, is the employer not allowed to be upset?

sounds like in this case, this time has already been given.

and like myra said, we are hearing one side of the story. val keeps throwing in factors that none of us are aware of in an attempt to illicit more sympathy for the situation.

ps - i dont always know when my mom may need me. it isnt always a situation i can plan ahead for.