Oct 14, 05
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Maybe once all you younger people have had experiences being given the absolute shaft by numerous employers, you'll be more sympathetic to the union position. 
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Oct 14, 05
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A great question is... ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AN ESECIAL SERVICE IN OTHER PROVINCES? Like I mentiond before... how did they let the bus strike carry on so long, yet the public and government seem to think were loosing so much when the strike has only lasted a few days. If public education was so valuble then why doesnt Gordan Camble make a better effort to bargen and talk with the teachers? Why didnt he do this before they went on strike? Gordon Camble doesnt seem to have a clue whats going on with public education and is trying to make a contract with out any nagociating or talking with the BCTF. And realize that the biggest reason parents are soo upset is becase they have no one to take responsibility while they work during the day! Is that all teachers are... baby siters? I mean really what did you do on a pro day? What did you do when your child was sick? what did you do for winter/spring/summer break? It's rediculouse what a big deal the media has turned this into.
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Oct 14, 05
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Ive seen the situation with your class before. This is also why the teachers are so up set, becuase instead of the government funding more money to provide more classes for all its students or STOPPING THE CUT BACKS... the schools are left to do the best they can and deal with what the government has left them with. In otherwords stop blaming the teachers for what the goverment is doing. You go off about your situation living alone, going to school...WELCOME TO LIFE!!! I work with ppl who are not only going to school, paying for it, but also have 2-3 kids to take of as well... AND THERE STUCK ON STRIKE!!! You whine about your education being put in jepordy... its barly been a week... its not time to worry or are you planing on using the strike as a lame excuse why you didnt do well? Teachers are pretty good and understanding and will most likely extend your tests and projects even cancel them. If they get somthing out of this strike... thell be in a good mood and probly be even better about it :D Once again when ppl try to pull the 'ESSENTIAL SERVICE' line... that was a law Gordon Camble made a few years ago. I think its absolute buill shit and his way to avoid trouble and turn the blame away from him. Im still curiouse if public education is still an 'ESSENTIAL SERVICE' in other provinces? Also how can public education be an essential service when the bus drivers can get away with months on a public transit stirke??? Whats all bullshit? The fact that your not getting what YOU want? Quote:
Ok do I luagh or cry??? Im 22 no kids and know of a few others on this board who are also the same age and a cupe member. I agree as you really need to elaberate on this statment!?! Im curiouse, are you a highschool student? Student Teacher? Child of a member of parlament or child of a school board member? How do you think you know so much and were is your information coming from? Last edited by Ree Fresh; Oct 14, 05 at 12:20 PM.
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Oct 14, 05
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Is it not possible that over my 27 years, that i have developed a sense of critical thinking and understanding of the nature of statistics, and or the nature of outside high school learning centers? Do you reject the existence of a number(a large one that) of high school learning centers, individual tutors, home school environments and religious organizations? If we understand that there is a large number of learning centers, and tutors outside the realm of the public high school, can we not deduce that such organizations and individuals have an impact on our children’s learning ability, and proficiency of any subject? If we understand the previous statement, is it not feasible to believe that the support and influence that said learning centers and individual tutors may not all be accounted for in governmental statistics? Is not possible that a system to include such outside influences may not even exist, or it may, but would be somewhat non-representational? Moving along with the current line of thinking, is it not then possible to state that in an environment where public high school teachers workloads are increasing, class size is increasing, where teachers responsibilities are broadening to outside the classroom affairs of students, a lack of salary evolution and a general level of disenfranchisement, THERE MAY BE a sizeable shift towards outside tutoring options and or a shift in perception about the need of such resources and the effectiveness of such resources? Finally then, with this line of thinking in process, is it not possible to validate a statement outlining the idea that "results from public high school proficiency and performance statistics may represent the influence of establishments outside the realm and or jurisdiction of the public education system?" So I ask again, is this such a hard thing to believe? Wouldn’t empirical data lean towards supporting my statement? But I digress, the real situation, or the one that should be our highest priority, is that of finding a solution to making our teachers happy and subsequently the community happy, taking into consideration there is a population of both teachers and community members that are confused about, who in fact is responsible for offering solution and change. it is a society that deems what is needed and appropriate for our children, and we depend on our government to carry out such demands and needs. This at the current time is NOT being undertaken by our government, and this fact must be addressed before we can address any other facet of the current educational environment including corruption at the Union leadership.The primary problem, in this situation is the failure of the provincial government to: -listen to the demands of the public for their education system, and provide an environment for teachers to offer the best possible educational service for our children -address the demands of our teachers who have consistently communicated their displeasure over the educational landscape for the last decade -set up an environment where legitimate study of the educational landscape could be carried out, and thus solutions drafted up It is up to us the community, and the teachers to support each other, and first hold our government accountable for the above mentioned, and then, and only then can we legitimately address the problems of corrupt union leadership. I really don’t know any other way to put this across!? There are problems entrenched in various levels of this situation, but the first and foremost objective should be, to a)communicate our needs through demand, and b) holding our government accountable, everything else comes after this. The government watches the community and teachers banter back and forth, and all the while they offer no viable solution finding discourse of action?? THIS IS THE PROBLEM! Ps: esoteric, I hope the way I came to conclusion of private sector tutoring effecting educational stats, made sense, I can give you some data I have managed to collect, it may offer some better answers than I can communicate at the moment-- peace+'spect fable SUPPORT OUR STRIKING UNIONS, AND HELP THEM COMMUNICATE THEIR DEMANDS TO GOVERNMENT, AND THEN WE WILL WORRY ABOUT UNION LEADERSHIP
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Oct 14, 05
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Hold on a second? In the statistics before it showed that the class average is rising... small, but rising. Also this is through out BC. Reading before I think its very un realistic if statistics are only coming from the Vancouver school Board. No its not every class that is over flowing and from what ive seen... its probly about 1/5 - 1/10 of every class. Not counting the small 10-15 classes that are full of kids with special needs. ALSO I think you should know that children designated with LD count for 2 students instead of one. Example one SS 8 class I worked in had about 26 students... however 9 of those students were diagnosed/labled with a Learning Disability!!! Now can you imagine being a teacher trying to teach a class with 9 students who have learning difficulties? No wonder they had me in that class and I was only able to make it there half the time. Quote:
The big picture is ALL OF BC. We dont see it here in Vancouver... however out in the interrior schools are being shut down and students are left with the fact that they have to bus for hours each day to an out of town school instead of going to their local school. If you look at the big picture it does boil down to the children and in so many ways. The teachers arnt just fighting for a raise... in their last contract the teachers choose smaller class's over a raise. Teachers are up set about EVERYTHING. Corners are being cut were ever possible which has a huge effect on the teachers jobs. Compare the VSB office on grandvill and broadway... and look at what the students and teachers have to work in. I dont understand how you can say its not about the children. The teachers job is to educate. Their jobs are being extreamly effected and harder to deal with due to cut backs. This is what I see teachers dealing with everyday... effects both their and my job to provide whats best for the students: -libarry time being cut -music programs cut -old old text books that are worn out or -not enough novels so teachers are left with boring ones that dont intrest students -art teachers who work with a trolly going from class room to class room also only 30-40 minutes of time -over populated schools are loosing out on gym time (1hour moved to 30-40 min) -school fee's going up and less suplies given out for students -hot lunch programs being lost -LAC rooms being lost -less suport for students with special needs therefore either myself or teachers have to deal with them as extra -over crowded schools means... *high schools are forced to change timetables and offer less classes *elementry schools are being cramed and dived up by thin wall dividers. Often with only 3 walls so noise is constant and very hard for teachers to teach in and students to learn in These are not the conditions teachers were toughed to teach in and students deserve way better!!! It really bothers me how people debate like all this stirke is all about 'pay raises' and 'smaller class rooms'. Go out and ask the teachers what their most up set about and they'll tell its the fact that Gordon Camble wont negociate with them. Yet I dont understand how ppl can whine about the teachers asking for a raise when nothing is said when a $20,000 a year raise was given to parlament workers when the Liberals first came into power over 4 years ago? HEY THINK AGAIN, WHO SHOULD WE BE SCREAMING AT ABOUT RAISES??? Quote:
Last edited by Ree Fresh; Oct 14, 05 at 01:34 PM.
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Oct 14, 05
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on a lighter note, I got see and talk to one of my favorite teachers while he was picketing today... shitty I saw him under those circumstances but nice to keep in touch none the less...
I think I'm going to play some guitar for the picketers on a sunny day...
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Oct 14, 05
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Awww that reminds me... today we had some students come by with their parents to bring us donuts :kimmie: That would be so sweet if you did that, the teachers really appreciate any suport!
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Oct 14, 05
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Reread my posts... "it's not --->>>> ALL <<<<--- about the children". I completely believe that some of it is, but that isn't the only reason. Anyway, have a good weekend.
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Oct 14, 05
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was this directed at me? if so, i do know. my mom goes to the meetings, and one of my best friends dad is the on the school board. not to mention the numerous family friends we have who are teachers. im thoroughly involved in the finances of my family as im provider for the household, so anything that effects it, i tend to know alot about. teachers striking... let me see... do i know or understand what that can be like? i graded in 2002 when teachers stopped all extra-curicular help which meant no tutorials for provincails, no sports, no help in making art portfolios, ect. granted not as drastic as a strike but it effected my future. my self and other students realized early on what the teachers were fighting for - mostly us. so we organized a student walk out between highschools in support of our teachers (with teacher support as well) i have been following the issue ever since, but only on the outskirts and wouldnt think that i would know as much as a teacher, but know enough to understand what is going on. please question your government. ask them where your tax money and parents tax money is going, and where the supposed surpluses are being spent. ask them if saving up for the 2010 olympics and cleaning up the city is more important then your education, healthcare. ask them if their raises are more important then your education. the public needs to start focusing on the other side of this massive cookie, and start asking the government questions. why did gordo wait until last night to finally comment on the situation?
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Oct 14, 05
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Oct 14, 05
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Reason why I picked apart your post was for one it was the last and two when you 'agreed' with him on certin topics which I highly dissagree with. Dont take it so personaly... im getting back at both of you, but hopefully dont have to deal with him. :D Last edited by Ree Fresh; Oct 14, 05 at 06:58 PM.
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Oct 15, 05
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[quote=wellbelove's]How are you politicaly involved?[quote]
jesus christ woman im a very active member in several political groups including 2 parties and i always follow along with this stuff very closely, including going to many events, conventions, debates, etc. Politics is becoming my career, as I planned it to. i know what im talking about.
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Oct 15, 05
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anyways ill elaborate for you woman... people with parents in cupe etc. are brainwashed to their parents opinions most of the time therefore usually have a response thought out by their parents and not themselves.
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Oct 15, 05
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by the way i speak about the majority of teachers... ive been to bctf events and pep rallies and i know what theyre rallying for. it actually makes me wanna puke when i see it.
and yes i know theres tons of awesome teachers out there that shove money out of their pockets, i saw it happen tons with my film teacher. but if u even saw these lil pep rallies they have youd be disgusted. also, when they have strikes, they defend the question of lost class time (which is usually A LOT of lost class time) with little numbers like 2% of time lost. however, when they talk about a couple days that campbell pulled off for whatever reason, for all i know no reason, its 1.68 million school days?? honestly
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Oct 15, 05
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what makes me think you are so much younger? because you think that i can be brainwashed. why would i not have my own opinions? i realize you said "most of the time" but what makes you assume that i am one that has been? my opinion is simply that my mom and teachers deserve better treatment. if anything, and many people would attest to it, i have many strong vies and opinions and am quick to educate myself on events that interest me. please dont assume your the only one who does independant research. also dont assume that everyone from cupe is the same, or that everyone who is related to a cupe member is the same. my moms friend voiced up in the province, and got thoroughly shitted on by the union. so now it seems its up to my dad to voice his opinion.
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Oct 15, 05
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I haven’t bothered to read your other posts, but your statement is a generalization, and a unfounded stereotype that: 1) may lead some to believe that you are of the opinion that many a young people out there are too ignorant to disseminate their opinions from their parents, is this true? 2) that the CUPE union as well as others is largely about rhetoric, lies, and ignorance(leadership aside) and have a secret agenda that is so important that they would be willing to go on a full unilateral strike action? 3) That perhaps the Unions are a waste of time, and do nothing to support the rights of the general working class? Since you though it necessary to mention that your are active in various political groups, I’m going to give you a small word of advice:: Research and understand the underlying principles of peoples actions and words. Details are important to know, but the PRINCIPLE is the integral key. The current principle of Union action(corrupt leadership aside) is that the working classes are not having their demands met or even entertained by the provincial government - pure and simple! Is their any other minor agendas, sure? what does it matter at this point? The primary conflict is that the provincial government has no respect for the significance of strike action of the rising discontent of the working people of Canada, specifically BC in this case. Legislature that forces people back to work, freezes assets and thus denies strike pay(which workers pay into as a deduction from their cheques), and leaves no room for active bargaining, or listening is OPPRESSION OPRESSION OPRESSION!!!!!! The sector of the HEU under Sadekso(sp?), the BCTF, and even the Telus Union workers at the very core of the matter, are voicing their demands for a better working environment, and a umbrella UNION (I don’t know if that was the right term?) like CUPE, and other unions such as the BCNU are showing their support for their fellow men and women in struggle. The only thing that can stop this movement is a corrupt leadership, but barring that, the working class needs to rise up, else we become mired into a precedent of the provincial government being able to shut down any struggle for workers rights immediately, and that is NOT AN OPTION. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders(I’m not trying be condescending) but do not get caught up in arguments of details, and irrelevancies. Stick to the principles! Its only going to be AFTER the working class is able to be on equal footing with the provincial government, that union members will have a "stable" platform, as to sort out matters such as leadership. what political groups are you with btw? what sort of lobbying work are you currently involved with? Perhaps you should attend a MAWO meeting, and then decide if its something for you? nonetheless keep the focus, on the core issue!! and support union members who are leading the struggle for better working conditions! action+mobilization shakeel http://www.mawovancouver.org http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage http://www.firethistimenews.net
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Oct 15, 05
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The last thing that any soicio-politcal activist or participant uses as a reference to legitimacy is to tell people that ur in several unamed parties, and because you plan to make a career in politics, you therefore "know what you are talking about" BAH!!! bad whitedove BAD! if you know facts, speak on the facts, or on the cause, who we are is irrelevent at that moment is irrelevent, do not make it personal (yeah i know, im one to talk) TRY not to make it personal, and SPEAK ON THE FACTS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THE PRINCIPLES! gluck yo!
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Oct 15, 05
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whitedove: I find it hard to believe that your out to become a politition when you make such vage points, make rude comments towards ppl, and dont have the power to listen to others... how are you supose to get anyone's suport when you treat and act that way towards others? Seriously though... I bolded the areas that are extreamly inapropriate for any politition to say and are very vage.... think about it.
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Again you need to elaberate way more... as I cant seem to get what your trying to say in your last paragraph here. Last edited by Ree Fresh; Oct 15, 05 at 03:36 PM.
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Oct 15, 05
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Oct 15, 05
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action+mobilization shakeel
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Oct 15, 05
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ever heard of the saying dont bite the hand that feeds you? maybe the bctf is just too mkilitant and ignorant for anyone to negotiate with.
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Oct 15, 05
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I would say biting the hand that feeds you, would be appropriate, if the other hand has you by the throat. What is your stance on the current situation anyways? Im not too clear on what you think should happen, and why? action+mobilization shakeel
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