Oct 17, 05
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lets see how it plays out in victoria today- action+mobilization shak 
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Oct 17, 05
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I dont think any union except for the cupe workers who work in the schools have any reason to strike for sake in helping the teachers 'win' their battle. HOWEVER I totaly suport a general strike that involves all unions and any other work group organizations in striking as a way of protest to the way Gordon Camble has been treating the unions etc. The main reason the teachers wont back down is because they want a chance to negociate and do proper bargening. I believe with the way the goverment has recently been dealing with the unions, threatening, and making laws in favor of Gordon Camble is why I believe all unions should stick together in this and have a general strike day. Whether or not the teachers get what they want out of this stirke is a diffrent story, but they need to negociate and talk first!
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Oct 17, 05
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Oct 17, 05
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wow, took me a while to read this thread... but definatly worth it.
you guys have alot of good facts, alot of which i agree with. The teachers definatly do deserve what they are want, hell, we're a democracy and the government should be a little more negotable. I have definatly had alot of teachers that have had a deep impact on my life. and honestly, the rich are getting richer. fuck the government.
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Oct 17, 05
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my next door neighbor from up north is a high school teacher. He has a boat, atvs, snowmobiles, 2 vehicles and a home in one of the nicest areas in Terrace. He gets paid stat holidays and a 2 month vacation every year. To top it all off, he's a shitty teacher, a lazy teacher, and a beer drinking alcoholic teacher.
And now he gets another vacation at the students expense? FFUUUUUUCK that! if all the teachers out there were working as hard as "the best teacher I've ever had", than maybe this strike could be seen as somewhat legit. As far as i can tell,that is not the case... maybe in citys like vancouver there are more teachers who are doing it for the right cause.... But where iam from, they're generally all just a bunch of jaded alcoholics who dont give one fuck about the kids. Last edited by -evil-duerr-; Oct 17, 05 at 08:39 PM.
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Oct 17, 05
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yes getting to work is tough, yes having to buy a cab is shitty, but are you a princess, or a women who is capable of adapting and overcoming? You sound bright, and im sure youve been in tougher pickles before, so how bout looking at the larger picture and getting over, what comes off as a spoilt sense of entitlement. You, You, You. I dont expect you to support something you dont believe in intrinsicly, but - if if the people who currently involved in struggle ARE legitimate they must continue. This is NOT punishing the public, if the public understands that the power to make change, is in the governments court. Voice your displesure to the government that is supposed to represent us, and help quanitfy our needs. Why turn on your fellow man/women? Why is this so easy for you? Why do you auomatically assume that the current actions are childish or ignorant? Isnt struggling for rights by definition an action that is our responsbility to carry out? bike, walk, carpool, the options are many.. if your not going to support, i think a little understanding, wouldnt kill you, after all you are part of the human race? action+mobilization shak
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Oct 17, 05
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No its not fair. Its not fiar that we have a government that thinks they can legislate laws and contracts. Its not fair that our primare thinks he can call the teachers criminals when he was cought drinking and driving him self. Its not fair that the government has no respect for unions and lets them get contracted out and replaced with lower paying jobs and higher earning CEO's. This just leads to the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. What bothers me is how ppl always point their fingers at the unions for striking. Striking is the only power unions hold. Its the only way they can stand up for themselfs agains the government. Wasnt it Gundi who tought us how to peacfully protest and stand up for what we believe in? So think agian... whats pushing the unions soo far to have a general strike? What else can the unions/workers do when they treated un fairly? I find it un fair how the government can make a law and try to tell the unions what to do. Our country is a democracy, and if enough ppl stand up for what they believe in then hopefully we can get the messege accross to them.
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Oct 17, 05
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hah.. speaking of unfair
It's cool we can all read and write and have a place to lay our heads. It's too bad the teachers/government couldn't channel all this energy into something more useful, like education in third world countries.
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Oct 17, 05
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uhh so apparently tomorrow public transit will be on strike too
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Oct 18, 05
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I wonder if much of the government's hardline attitude is because the BCTF blasted them during the election campaign. The teacher's have been dicked around for the last few years; it seems silly the government wouldn't even meet them half way.
As for a general strike, I'm for it (and I'd be drastically affected too) if things are leaning the way they are. The government is ignoring established, agreed-to principles set out by the ILO, making their legislation of unions to return to work unlawful (kinda like how Bush came up with 'unlawful combatant' to hold POWs after multiple Geneva Conventions said otherwise). The teachers combating this should not be charged criminally, as the government is inquiring about now. All unions should be worried. The way I see it, the BCTF has been taking it in the pooper for a while now, but finally come out guns blazing at the wrong time. They made enemies with the government, now the government is beating them down overkill. At this point, accepting the one year extended contract doesn't seem like that bad of out for the BCTF.
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Oct 18, 05
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who gives a shit about fair? life byits nature is unfair. how many of you guys who support the teachers would be willing to have their income tax or pst raised by 2% without complaining in order to support the raises teachers demand. The money comes from somewhere and regardless of the current round of budget surplus you must take into account the cyclical nature of british columbia's economy as well as its relatively significant debt load before you start making willy nilly long term and largely unreasonable/unsustainable spending commitments.
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Oct 18, 05
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I have no problem paying tax's... if it used properly. What bothers me is the goverment got a $20,000 raise a year as soon as Gordon and his party began parlament 4 years ago. However it seems some ppl are willing to let the public education slide ad be cut back each year? Now sean I know how advicated you are in putting your own kids through private school. Or would you rather pay more in tax's and put your kids through a public school system that can meet their needs? Anyone who graduated 2001 and later got a pretty decent education. Even then we still had a stingy education system. However once 2002 hit the education system slowly gotton so bad that the ppl who work in it can barly manage to provdie enough to meet minimal standards. Hence teachers are working harder and in harder conditions. Either give the teacehrs a raise or give them the better working conditions like they use to have or the next generation will suffer.
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Oct 18, 05
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You know what's NOT fair?
god knows how many students who are missing classes for all this shit. Yes I feel for the teachers, but they never seemed to give a fuck about us (in the previous strikes). I will not sit aside thinking that the teachers are doing these strictly for the students, FOR THEY ARE NOT! I remember missing close to a month of school, right before our finals for IB exams. Maaany AP/grade12 students get fucked over in these things. fair? I think not. Don't get me wrong, I can see why the teachers might want to strike... but honestly, I don't think that it comes off as a fair trade-off for everyone. SEATING ON THE CLASS FLOOR IS BETTER THAN SITTING AT HOME! they are playing around with students' futures here. Their final years in highschool are life-changing times. Noone should be allowed to fuck it up for them, except them.
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Oct 18, 05
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Oct 18, 05
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Apparently you know the insides and outs of provincial governmental spending, so ill take your word for it, but I personally feel that the larger picture, the real significance of unions standing up for their demands is the principle of representation, and having a voice. One must demand his/her rights FIRST, then formulate the logistics, and budget setting, and allocation systems SECOND. -i.e. The provincial government looks at the upcoming 2010 Olympics as not only a significant cultural event that will put our province on the world stage, but as also a significant investment into both infrastructure and economy of the province which will in turn set up a basis for sustainable programs and business well into the future. Why wouldn’t an investment into fulfilling the needs of the working class, so they can fulfill OUR NEEDS as well be any different an idea? If the economy is cyclical, and we consider something like education an essential "service" then wouldn’t it be safe to say that if we invest in the "product" of such sectors as education and health, it only benefits us in the long run? -Why is supporting the working class in a struggle that is essentially trying to restore a specific set of rights, to an acceptable point so hard for you to support? -Why is it not possible for the government to agree to negotiations, and come to the bargaining table? -Do you believe that all provincial moneys have been taken into account, when the budget was formulated. I would say, that the budget surplus, by the inherent nature of the process, is a "minimum"? This current movement is much larger in its scope and its possible chance for positive change. Bigger than a phantom 2% PST raise, bigger than "the cyclical nature of British Columbia’s economy" -I would think that if the government was finally realized that they need to make a commitment of the working class peoples of BC, any allocation of funds to subsidize specific demands, would be seen as a demand? How much do you think that the "special prosecutor" assigned to this situation is getting paid? I must hand it too, you obviously have researched, and understand the "realities" of such demands that the unions are making, but the "realities" of what can come about as a result of current action are much more important, its effects much more serious, you just have to lift your head out of the statistics for a second, and look out onto the horizon, because that’s where the next set of "realities" sit and wait. -You seem to state that we are not thinking about the effects in the long run, but I think current actions are ONLY thinking about the long riun? action+mobilization shak
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Oct 18, 05
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Starve half the population of India!?! wtf!?!? That commentt was probably the best example of somebody completely missing the point of a significant movement, and the most gross oversimplification i have ever heard. Man, that was ignorant!!! Im sure your an intelligent person most of the time, but i suggest you SERIOUSLY ponder thinking about this one long and hard. FUCk! Quote:
action+mobilization shak
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Oct 18, 05
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over simplification, or overexaggeration?
I don't think I'm completely missing the point here, because I truely don't think that all significant movements must end up with a vast portion of the population paying for them. does that sound ignorant to you? Quote:
But the bottom line is, the last couple strikes were completely useless. I organized a protest when I was in hs to defend the teachers. Thinking back now, that was a big waste of 7 hours! cars honked, and people yelled and rebelled. The jokes are on us. Now i'm not saying this only because we've tasted the bitter loss, no. Noone should just give up just because they failed. All I'm suggesting is that these teacher-strikes do waay more harm than good.
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Oct 18, 05
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Are you hinting, that the struggles and sacrifice of the one Mahatma, were in vain? That in fact, HE was the reason behind the people of India, suffereing en masse? The real crime, and tragedy sorrounding the tale of this great man, is that WE rarelt listen to the teachings of such people, or if we do, its in passing, and soon forgotten. He may have bee contradictory at times throughout his life, but i think this is inescapable - but any suffering inflicted upon the people of India, where either by brutal government, or self infliction for the greater good. And that is what i belive is the case today. Self infliction for the greater good, the difference between now, and usually is that we will dictate the terms, as it should, and will soon be - Quote:
action+mobilization shak
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Oct 18, 05
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God I find it intresting as in one way you suport the teachers, yet in an other you seem to feel this strike is pointless. I can agree as this strike is pointless becuase the goverment will probly make more laws to get the teachers to go back and get nothing out of this.
However what do you sugest the teacehrs do? How do the teachers get the funding they need to teach properly and get a respectable increase in sallery that everyone deserves when you build your experince in a carreer? Or are you sugesting the teacehrs just play sheep and do everything there told to? If the lack of funding continues, it will be your parents paying for your IB programs. There wont be any teachers volentering their time to help those after school, at lunch, before class and suporting your after school activities like drama, clubs, sports etc. Is this what you want your kids to grow up in? In the big picture were looking at only the rich getting educated. As I found out today that Gordon Camble put 8 mill into private schools... and only 1.5 mill into the public system!!! Why??? Because the majority of Liberal suporters have their kids in private school. In the long run... if you put more money into the education system it will save you future parents money on programs/trips/fees, provide way more oppertunitys for your children and others (keeping them off the street and off welfare), and have much more un stressed teachers who have more one on one time to give your children the best education possible. Less and less people are wanting to become teachers. This leaves it harder and harder for the schools to find the best of teachers when the baby boom of teacehrs retire. I wouldnt be surprised if we see a huge lack of teachers in the next 10-15 years... and will probly be forced to hire those in east india that are so desperate for money. There you go God... we found work for the ppl in east india... they can educate your children. Last edited by Ree Fresh; Oct 18, 05 at 02:02 PM.
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