"White Trash"

[.anya]

^I haven't read the whole thread but in response to question #2.

Wow, it would be nice to think that "canadians are financially burdened by taking care of illegal immigrants" and then maybe you would have a point. But the reality is that Canada's population is not nearly big enough to support the kind of mass development that the country has been going through. Whether you realize it or not, the vast majority of immigrants (legal or not) are doing most of the jobs that Canadians won't (low-skill, physically-demanding, low-paying, little benefits). If Canada were to outlaw immigration, a lot of the services we take for granted would disappear because immigrants are mostly the ones working in those sectors!
Point is, Canada is just as dependant on immigration as those people who come here are on your "financial burden." It's naive to put yourself on a pedastal of humanitarian efforts when talking about immigration.

So next time you are doing something worthy of publically patting yourelf on the back for, think of the fact that you are probably just as dependant on some of the people who benefit from your overwhelming generosity.

[Cdn_Brdr]

You didn't read the question very well did you? It clearly states the question in regards to ILLEGAL immigrants only. I have no problem with immigration. As a matter of fact a fair amount of our jobs are dependent on it and I appreciate that fact.

The immigrants fable mentioned were illegals coming in off a container ship. That is a massive financial burden. They are housed here for god knows how long and then, unfortunately for them, are shipped back to where they came from... all on the Canadian tax payers bill. How is that not a financial burden? Personally I think that if they are desperate enough to risk that kind of trip to get here then they have a damn good reason.

Next time, before you go and jump down my throat, read the question carefully. I was clearly playing devil's advocate and asking nothing more than a question. I threw the question out to see what people had to say about it... please realize that I am hardly as heartless as you seem to think and as far as I can tell there's no pedestal anywhere near me.

[Antenna_Boy]

Originally Posted by 3507321C

I meant "Canadian" as in there is no such thing unless you're native.

Not that Natives are Canadian.

No one is Canadian it's made up, like American.

Buddy, get your head fixed. You make no sense at all in your little panic stricken ethnic world there. Look, we live in Canada, right? Therefore we are CANADIAN as long as we have our LEGAL CITIZENSHIP. This is called plain english. If you are a Native and your routes stem back to the first nations, you have legal citizenship, then you would be a Canadian Native. Just because you live on the soils of Canada does not make you something else. Another example, my background is Czech, but I was born here. I am a czech-canadian (as I have dual citizenship). So let's not get are frizzy with the idea "if you're not native, you are not canadian" IE-> You are what your background is and not based on what land you live on. But since you live on a large rock surface known as Canada, you are Canadian..and the rest you can take to the Royal Bank of Canada =)

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

^^ yeah i was thinkin that the other day...


that would belike saying africans arnt african
and russians arnt russians
and asians arnt asians...just dont make nesence

[Antenna_Boy]

Originally Posted by .anya

Whether you realize it or not, the vast majority of immigrants (legal or not) are doing most of the jobs that Canadians won't (low-skill, physically-demanding, low-paying, little benefits). If Canada were to outlaw immigration, a lot of the services we take for granted would disappear because immigrants are mostly the ones working in those sectors!
Point is, Canada is just as dependant on immigration as those people who come here are on your "financial burden." It's naive to put yourself on a pedastal of humanitarian efforts when talking about immigration.

You know what? FUCK YOU! My parents came here with NOTHING! No english skills, no connections, no money, hardly any clothes that most canadians already have. The point is, they came here because Canada is a land of opportunity. I know that there a handful of people who come here to succeed. But I disagree how you phrased "the vast majority". Speak up and let us know which MAJORITY you are referring to and quit talking like a politician by phrasing each sentence of yours in general terms. My parents worked their fucking asses off to become what is known as the working class, and after learning what most Canadians already know (by coming into the country), have done VERY well for themselves. Immigration is good for the country...but as long as we have those immigrants coming here to work, unlike some bums on the streets of Vancouver and other major cities, I give these immigrants much deserved credit for at least trying to making work in the real world. Nuff said :mexitoke:

[Antenna_Boy]

Originally Posted by PaIniNyErAnUs

^^ yeah i was thinkin that the other day...


that would belike saying africans arnt african
and russians arnt russians
and asians arnt asians...just dont make nesence

asians are nammers..what are you talking about??? hahahah..jk :)

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

[quote=.anya.] Whether you realize it or not, the vast majority of immigrants (legal or not) are doing most of the jobs that Canadians won't (low-skill, physically-demanding, low-paying, little benefits). If Canada were to outlaw immigration, a lot of the services we take for granted would disappear because immigrants are mostly the ones working in those sectors!
[quote]

canada will never outlaw immagration....and if you have ever done construction then youd know that thats not tru...and low-skill, id like to see just anybody build a house...physically demanding yes...low-paying?...hell no...beings a trads person..a good one at least its takes school and a hella lota brains,...and little benifits??...RRSP's and medical and dental is a pretty sweet deal...if your doing hard labour for a company and they havent givin you benifits or atleast, promised you them after a certain amount of months then you really are a dumbass...if the immagrants do cheap labour then allthe more power to the people takin advantage of them...but in my experiences i havent seen that

[diaphorrhoea]

Only a small percentage of construction workers are unskilled labourers, so I don't really think that's a very good example.

Perhaps a better one would be the distribution business. I work at a distribution dock owned by Maersk, the largest shipping company in the world, and most of my co-workers are immigrants from India. The job requires no skills whatsoever, only that you be able to lift heavy crap all day, have no prior theft convictions (rapists and murderers? c'mon down!), and have a pulse.

Still though, I believe the disputed immigrants are of the illegal variety, and as far as I know it's hard to get a job in Canada without a Social Insurance Number, but I could be wrong about that.


Also, just as a slight derail here, fable do you do mushrooms? I only ask because a lot of what you've been saying throughout this discussion is very similar to thought-loops I seem to spend quite a bit of time in when I eat mushrooms. Making that connection was a weird feeling, because your words have been sounding so familiar.

[fable]

Originally Posted by diaphorrhoea

Only a small percentage of construction workers are unskilled labourers, so I don't really think that's a very good example.

Perhaps a better one would be the distribution business. I work at a distribution dock owned by Maersk, the largest shipping company in the world, and most of my co-workers are immigrants from India. The job requires no skills whatsoever, only that you be able to lift heavy crap all day, have no prior theft convictions (rapists and murderers? c'mon down!), and have a pulse.

Still though, I believe the disputed immigrants are of the illegal variety, and as far as I know it's hard to get a job in Canada without a Social Insurance Number, but I could be wrong about that.


Also, just as a slight derail here, fable do you do mushrooms? I only ask because a lot of what you've been saying throughout this discussion is very similar to thought-loops I seem to spend quite a bit of time in when I eat mushrooms. Making that connection was a weird feeling, because your words have been sounding so familiar.

if your going to try to undermine me, then catch the next bus outta the mental wastleland, understand that the only better living thats gonna happen will be a result of some intensified resistance movments, and of course a greater comprehension of the nature of current events, there relationships to eachother, and of course ever so carefully removing your head from out between your butt cheeks. Might i suggest brushing your teeth, before we talk again?

thx for coming out champ.

[diaphorrhoea]

Originally Posted by fable

if your going to try to undermine me, then catch the next bus outta the mental wastleland, understand that the only better living thats gonna happen will be a result of some intensified resistance movments, and of course a greater comprehension of the nature of current events, there relationships to eachother, and of course ever so carefully removing your head from out between your butt cheeks. Might i suggest brushing your teeth, before we talk again?

thx for coming out champ.

What the fuck? Are we reading the same thread? How the hell did you manage to be offended by what I said?

Edit: No I wasn't intentionally trying to rhyme, so don't accuse me of "biting" or some such offense.

[fable]

mushrooms? WTF!? Your equating some of my thoughts to what someone might come across while high on the ol shroomies, in the midst of political discussion, and your not trying to undermine? Come on now.

Please note, the amount of illegal labour in canada has been reprtedly reported by various npos and activist groups, and labour coillitions to be close to a quarter of the labour force in some provinces? Im quite convinced that the government is quite aware of this, and understand some monkeys working for peanuts, saves them a little pocket change.

[diaphorrhoea]

I'm not equating your thoughts to anything. I'm telling you that I spend a lot of time thinking about these exact topics of discussion while under the influence of mushrooms, and since it wouldn't be even close to the first time that I have encountered what seem to be very widely-experienced thought loops, I just thought I'd ask out of curiosity. Don't fly off the fucking handle, I wasn't insulting or undermining you in any way. Perhaps mushrooms have a negative connotation in your mind, but I personally see them as a very enlightening experience that allows me to think about things from perspectives that I can't achieve while sober. Fucking hell man. Being on mushrooms does not automatically make you a thoughtless, stupid husk. I've done some of my best thinking on the rare occasions that I eat them.

It's interesting how you're so quick to the defensive. You seem to be more in your element when you think you're being attacked in some way.

As for the labour thing, that is a fact that I did not know (and won't accept as truth until I see a reliable source), but I did state that I was by no means sure of myself in regards to this topic. I guess you learn something new every day, huh?

[fable]

sorry mate, im a recovering addict, and any drug insinuation of any kind, even as harmless shroomies, gets my fucking back up. So yeah i overeacted. But yes i am in my element when i am being attacked, but then again we are under attack consistently in this country, in this continent, and across the globe.

im bagged, and running off pop and a furious need to finish this digi collage im making, perhaps tommorow ill be in better mood.....but i wouldnt count on in :)

do me a favour and help me find some stats on numbers for estimations of illegal immigrants in this country working if you get some time. I saw a related film the other day, and the conservative "government" estimation was 100,000 nation wide?

[decypher]

Originally Posted by PaIniNyErAnUs

^^ yeah i was thinkin that the other day...


that would belike saying africans arnt african
and russians arnt russians
and asians arnt asians...just dont make nesence

Both you and Antenna boy's argument is completely a farce. 35073513 was getting at the point that the Natives were the original inhabitants. By saying russians aren't russians and african's aren't from africa just further proves his point as both of the groups you mentioned originally inhabited those regions. So how is that any different then his premise? You both are not making any sense.

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

yes there is natives..and i guess they are the natural "Canadians"..
i was just saying that it dont make sence...its like canada and america are like breeding grounds for europe...i dont even know..
if your in canada and your a citizen it dont matter yer background...analizying that is racist...
baaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahha..k im gonna go to bed now..
i dunno *shakes head*

edit: if theres natives for all lands...then where the fuck does everyone else fit in..you get in where you fit in

[fable]

Expressing that one is not "canadian" or "american" is NOT a slight on the values of every other race in this continent, its an expression of the belief that the ideas BEHIND both names and creations of the their namesake nations were racist, and prejudice in every facet at every step of the process.

Flags, anthems, symbolic identitites are tools of fostering feelings unification, morale, spirit, pride and personal responsibility, yet none of these ideal where practised by the STATE of Canada or the US, so i find it almost insulting if someone DOES refer to, or hold onto the preconception that misguided nationalism some how validates your worth as a contributing member of society, and this idea or belief system still rings true for the majority of citizens.

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

canada is a counrty..and if you dont know the national anthem..i think that you should get the fuck out

[fable]

Originally Posted by PaIniNyErAnUs

canada is a counrty..and if you dont know the national anthem..i think that you should get the fuck out

what happened to "ignore?"

Nonetheless, you may have a valid point, BUT what would speak on someones "legitemacy" more;

1)knowing the national anthem, having a maple leaf tatoo, thinking "canada kicks ass," and loving hockey?

2)being learned on the historical significance of national policy and development of Canada as a country, its impact on current society, and a desire to help contribute to the awareness, education and work needed to repair crippling trends in all facets of our country?

.....but just for you, "oh canada, our home ON native land...."

[Alex]

fable, the natives lost. Get over it. Throughout the history of our planet, civilizations have conquered other civilizations for treasures, resources, ports, and lands. The natives had less advanced technology, were less unified, and less educated on battle. The european's managed to conquer the world, because they were more advanced. The natives lost, it is NOT their land. Not a single native alive today, was alive when their land was conquered. Not a single white person today conquered the land. Why should anything be changed? Actrually, I take that one back, the only thing that should be changed is the fact that Natives should be stripped of all theri priviledges and reserves. They should have to pay taxes, and should be integrated as equal members of society.


Just out of curiosity, what would you purpose, fable? Sending all of us 'whites' back to europe? Maybe giving all of the land back to the natives, and forcing the 'eveil white men who stole their ladn and oppressed them' into slavery?

You are a hypocrite and a fool.

[decypher]

^ Europeans excelled because of geography not because they were more "advanced"

[Cdn_Brdr]

^He still made a few vaild points though Kam.

Shakalaka is gonna have a shit when he see's that though. Can't wait for the response!

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

Originally Posted by fable

what happened to "ignore?"

Nonetheless, you may have a valid point, BUT what would speak on someones "legitemacy" more;

1)knowing the national anthem, having a maple leaf tatoo, thinking "canada kicks ass," and loving hockey?

2)being learned on the historical significance of national policy and development of Canada as a country, its impact on current society, and a desire to help contribute to the awareness, education and work needed to repair crippling trends in all facets of our country?

.....but just for you, "oh canada, our home ON native land...."

fable..i took you off ignore cuz i knew you had something stupid to say, most of your points do kinda make sence...but im sorry, if your a immagrant or were all not canadians or whatever the case may be..u live on this land you speak the fuckin language and like hockey...know the anthem..and go for canadian bacon...you arnt contributing to the development of canada, if you shunning the thought that all canadians arnt canadian...crippling trends??..hockey is a crippling trent?..the fact is that "canada does kick ass"...people risk there life to come over here in goddam crates illegally..itsno a good thing but i hate to break it to you, your canadian...and if you dont like hockey thats OK...it dosent mean that what you do or dont like should be the same outlook that all "canadians" should have...im canadian..i like hockey..i <3 bacon..and i drink beer...i dont see anything wrong with canada and the "trends"..i think this is a fuckin nice place to be...

[cinist]

it's a shame fnk reaches across the river

[PaIniNyErAnUs]

Originally Posted by decypher

^ Europeans excelled because of geography not because they were more "advanced"

yeah ok..no..europeans excelled, cuz they developed a civialized structured economy..not as advanced as today but they had armys..kings and queens..castles, while the natives lived in tee pees...they had tools, and manufacturing down..while the natives were beating there clothes against a rock....its sad what happened, but the europeans clearly made it cuz they were more advanced..

[Alex]

Originally Posted by decypher

^ Europeans excelled because of geography not because they were more "advanced"

Europeans WERE more advanced due to the fact that they had learned and progressed from past civilizations. The chain of civilizations starting with the mesopotamians, then expanding into persia, egypt, greece, then the romans whom conquered europe, etc etc. The europeans ahd thousands of years of advancement they were learning form, not to mention the protestant philosophy 'work for work's sake'.

These are reasons why some Asian nations such as CHina, Japan and Malaysia advanced quicker, learning from their predecessors. Also note that none of these nations were conquered by the europeans.

Other continents had role model civilizatiosn, they just didn't learn adn advance. The Mayans and Aztec's could have been role models spreading North and South America, however, tribal disputes caused seperation, and religious beliefs and philosophies on life stalled advancement. Same goes with the tribes in africa. This is WHY they were conquered. This is WHY china conquered nations. They were less advanced, less mobilized, less unified, and less educated.