Thoughts on this one?

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by decypher

I'm not mincing words, it depends on how you conceptualize the term communion. I'm using it to show an intimate relationship between two people, not as a religious concept. I wasn't trying to disprove your concept of power, it has weight in many respects obviously. I was just showing that it doesn't have to be all about that. When you think something is a certain way it tends to turn out that way, but when you open your mind to an alternative concept maybe the world isn't so cold.

marriage and communion are not interchangeable. you can't really argue that regardless of how you conceptualize the term. a communion can happen within a marriage but not intrinsically. marriage is not about that intimate relationship. you can have a marriage with or without an intimate relationship and you can have an intimate relationship with or without marriage. you're trying to create a sort of straw man by replace marriage with communion.

you're argument proves my point. marriage is superfluous to the benefits associated with it. why would anyone in their right mind want to bring the law into their love life?

you're "alternative concept" of marriage is incongruous with the history of the cultural practise.

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

YOU SUCK AT ROMANCE!

that may or may not be true but i'm totally out of your league so you'll never know for sure.

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

that may or may not be true but i'm totally out of your league so you'll never know for sure.

I DONT DATE LIBERAL ARTS GRAD STUDENTS WITH A HATE ON FOR THE WORLD.

THE COMBINATION OF BITTERNESS, UNWARRANTEED MORAL OUTRAGE AND POVERTY IS A TURN OFF.

LEAGUEª YO SON WE AINT EVEN PLAYING THE SAME SPORT!

[Goat]

Getting married because you knocked someone up is rediculous. Make the clean break with your worldly possessions and spare the kid the fighting and bullshit that's going to follow.

At the same time though, man up and take responsiblity for pulling your dick out of your pants. Everytime you have sex, whether you're using protection or not, you gotta be prepared for the fact that failsafes might fail. Birth control isn't 100% and not everyone is prepared to dump the life inside of them at the drop of a hat.

The part I don't get is alimony. If you're going to bring a little 'you' into the world, and you're going to be paying $500+/month, why not raise it yourself? No ones a perfect parent and planned parenthood may as well be a myth in north america. $.02

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

I DONT DATE LIBERAL ARTS GRAD STUDENTS WITH A HATE ON FOR THE WORLD.

THE COMBINATION OF BITTERNESS, UNWARRANTEED MORAL OUTRAGE AND POVERTY IS A TURN OFF.

LEAGUEª YO SON WE AINT EVEN PLAYING THE SAME SPORT!

"poverty"?

you are hilariously stupid. why don't you let rawb be rawb. he's way better at it than you.

[stephen_c]

lol @ fnk ads

[PwInCeSs]

Bringing the "law" in to your love life is the way some may want to look at it, but after 2 years of living together (or one, I am not even sure lol) you become common law witch does give couples alot of the same legal rights as a married couple.

i love that people are so ready to get on top of their soapbox about marriage. why, why, why, would any of you take away what is special for some, though not for you, because you dont believe in marriage.

while i am not rushing out to get married ever, it is something people believe in. part of their religion, or tradition. who cares if it is law. to some people it is what is right. you dont stand on a corner and yell at everyone who is catholic, just cause they are catholic. why pick on someone because they believe in marriage.

further to that, while i dont agree with shotgun weddings. i have respect for them. as goat said, if you are responsible enough to have sex, you are responsible enough to deal with the consequences. i know many people who didnt love one another to start, but grew to love eachother more deeply than anyone else i know. i commend the couple for trying to make it work and raise the child in a proper family setting. this isnt about them, but the child, they are making the decision for the baby. why shouldnt the child be entitled to two parents in their life? it took two to make them.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

marriage and communion are not interchangeable. you can't really argue that regardless of how you conceptualize the term. a communion can happen within a marriage but not intrinsically. marriage is not about that intimate relationship. you can have a marriage with or without an intimate relationship and you can have an intimate relationship with or without marriage. you're trying to create a sort of straw man by replace marriage with communion.

you're argument proves my point. marriage is superfluous to the benefits associated with it. why would anyone in their right mind want to bring the law into their love life?

you're "alternative concept" of marriage is incongruous with the history of the cultural practise.

That was generally intelligent except that you have no concept of how to use the contraction "you're".

However, you also seem generally closed-minded about the whole situation, re:
"why would anyone in their right mind want to bring the law into their love life?"

Because a commitment means a bit more when it's on a public record.

Symbolically, a wedding is not just about the two people getting married. It's a commitment of all those present to approve of and support the beginning of a family. Hence why the "If anybody has any reason" part being a staple to just about any wedding ceremony - after that you are supposed to accept the marriage (". . .forever hold your peace").

Of course, that's symbolic. But what is a commitment without some kind of tangible evidence of such a commitment? What good is a truce between warring nations without a treaty? What good is an agreement between business partners without a contract? These things are true of all things in life. If you're happy floating around without any of these things then fine, good luck to you. But understand that very often there will be that hanging feeling that you have all this effort you've put in this relationship and nothing tangible to show for it.

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Avana

i love that people are so ready to get on top of their soapbox about marriage. why, why, why, would any of you take away what is special for some, though not for you, because you dont believe in marriage.

i'm not necessarily trying to take anything away. i trying to see if anyone even thinks critically about it. you wanna get married, giv'er tits. you wanna listen to trance, giv'er tits. doesn't mean we can't discuss it. and i'm certainly not picking on anyone.

...and i DO stand in corners and yell at everyone who's catholic....

[robyn]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

However, you also seem generally closed-minded about the whole situation, re:
"why would anyone in their right mind want to bring the law into their love life?"

Because a commitment means a bit more when it's on a public record.

thousands of american homos are weeping about their relatively meaningless relationships right now.

also, kind of depressing that i'm going to have to spend the rest of my life justifying not doing something i've never understood or felt any inclination to do, while adulterers and people who are married and divorced within a year get pats on the back and thousands of dollars in cash and prizes.

[Revolver]

thread is gold....

kir mokum will die alone and unhappy....

and im just gonna seriously spell it yor from now on....that will really drive the "you're" nazis mental...

its even kinda gross to look at it....yor....see, yor yor yor.....oh gawd its just awful.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Revolver

thread is gold....

kir mokum will die alone and unhappy....

and im just gonna seriously spell it yor from now on....that will really drive the "you're" nazis mental...

its even kinda gross to look at it....yor....see, yor yor yor.....oh gawd its just awful.

Just had to John.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Just had to John.

yor absolutely right.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by robyn

thousands of american homos are weeping about their relatively meaningless relationships right now.

They've been weeping/yelling/protesting about it for a while now, robyn. Glad you've been paying attention.

also, kind of depressing that i'm going to have to spend the rest of my life justifying not doing something i've never understood or felt any inclination to do, while adulterers and people who are married and divorced within a year get pats on the back and thousands of dollars in cash and prizes.

Oh please. Nobody's saying you have to get married in order to be happy. Where exactly did I specify that you were wrong for not getting married, and as such required justification for your personal choices? I think that is just as closed-minded as saying that there is no point to marriage.

This is exactly why I voted "Depends on the situation"

[cinist]

ever seen the movie, 'knocked up'
they gave it a shot without getting married. i can see the logic in trying to make it work, but get married if it does work not while trying to make it work.

[cinist]

seth rogen = life advice

[robyn]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Oh please. Nobody's saying you have to get married in order to be happy. Where exactly did I specify that you were wrong for not getting married, and as such required justification for your personal choices? I think that is just as closed-minded as saying that there is no point to marriage.

This is exactly why I voted "Depends on the situation"

you didn't say it was wrong, you said it wouldn't mean as much. i feel somewhat pressured to justify my choices when someone says that their relationship means more than mine because they choose to participate in ceremony that to them is important but to me is completely arbitrary. how incredibly closed minded of me.

[cinist]

ahah you suckers are going to loose half your stuff

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by robyn

you didn't say it was wrong, you said it wouldn't mean as much. i feel somewhat pressured to justify my choices when someone says that their relationship means more than mine because they choose to participate in ceremony that to them is important but to me is completely arbitrary. how incredibly closed minded of me.

I was more explaining the mindset of those who choose to go down that path than stating absolutes.

[prozac]

Originally Posted by Avana

further to that, while i dont agree with shotgun weddings. i have respect for them. as goat said, if you are responsible enough to have sex, you are responsible enough to deal with the consequences. i know many people who didnt love one another to start, but grew to love eachother more deeply than anyone else i know. i commend the couple for trying to make it work and raise the child in a proper family setting. this isnt about them, but the child, they are making the decision for the baby. why shouldnt the child be entitled to two parents in their life? it took two to make them.

I hugely disagree.

I was an accident. My mom was 19. My parents were only together very briefly.

I always had two parents. They both raised me and my brother, together, without being in a romantic relationship with eachother or a marriage.

So this argument for getting married just so your kid will have two parents is absolute bullshit. You can be responsible and raise a child without being married, it just takes some maturity, creativity, and old-fashioned hard work.

All this crap about the "traditional" family structure somehow being superior to any other arrangement really pisses me off. It just shits on the incredible love and strength of my parents, single moms who do a good job, gay couples with kids, etc etc. Not to mention the fact that it totally glosses over all the fucked up dysfunctional families in misery because mom and dad got married "because of the child". Wake up, people, it's not 1955 anymore. You don't have to have mom, dad and 2.5 kids to be normal or happy.

Now that said, I DO believe in marriage. I think a lot of people take it way too lightly, which is why I voted don't get married just because you're pregnant. I hate the idea of divorce, and when I get married I intend to stay that way.

[cinist]

boh boh dat

[kir mokum]

see, my real beef is with the way women are brainwashed into thinking they want a wedding and a marriage from birth. nearly all women in our culture want to get married and almost none of them can explain why, they just want to. men are brainwashed too but not nearly to the same extent women are. it's shocking and unbelievable to me. as shocking and unbelievable as people believing in that catholic D&D nonsense.

[stephen_c]

do the right thing,
make a honest woman out of her.

[decypher]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

marriage and communion are not interchangeable. you can't really argue that regardless of how you conceptualize the term. a communion can happen within a marriage but not intrinsically. marriage is not about that intimate relationship. you can have a marriage with or without an intimate relationship and you can have an intimate relationship with or without marriage. you're trying to create a sort of straw man by replace marriage with communion.

you're argument proves my point. marriage is superfluous to the benefits associated with it. why would anyone in their right mind want to bring the law into their love life?

you're "alternative concept" of marriage is incongruous with the history of the cultural practise.

I'm not ignorant to the cultural practices of history so don't frame me as such. I was just making the point that if you view marriage that way then maybe you yourself are doomed to have that sort of relationship. I'm not here to argue whatever definition you've concocted from the interweb. I'm sure i can goto the root of the word com and union and come up with all sorts of definitions in social reality. You just went for the easy argument of semantics.

Which btw we aren't even arguing here. It's a matter of your opinion which i agree with. I was just pointing out the negatives of that viewpoint that are quite valid as well in many arenas.

Remember, if that someone lives with you for a year that's commonlaw. So there's a power arrangement strictly through relation. There goes your relationship free of such institution, boo hoo, maybe you guys can get two houses joined by a series of tubes.