Kid arrested for bringing glass of water to Schiavo

[wum]

Legal distinctions like "guardian" and "best interest" are totally drowning out the fact that she has responded vigorously in the eleventh hour of this whole debacle. She wants to live.

Terri Schindler-Schiavo does not want to die. She would like to go home. And she tried to convey this to her father in no uncertain terms by sitting bolt upright and trying to get out of her chair when told she might be killed, her family has revealed.

The stunning news was released at noon Eastern today by Terri's father, Robert Schindler, at the 'round-the-clock vigil outside the Woodside Hospice facility in Pinellas Park, Fla., where his daughter's court-ordered death by starvation is scheduled to begin tomorrow at 2 p.m. Eastern. At that time, her husband and legal guardian Michael Schiavo is scheduled to give the order to disconnect the 39-year-old brain-disabled woman's feeding tube that has provided her with sustenance for the past 13 years.

This isn't about euthanasia so much as it is about getting away with the perfect crime. If you want to pass off her multiple injuries that she sustained as "right wing" then you've missed the point completely.

Yes, that's only opinion but the basis for keeping her alive is not to simply investigate the husband. She responds to her mother when asked if she wants to live. Isn't that affirmation enough that she deserves to live? As well, the so-called "vegetative" state proclaimed by doctors lays out as follows:

MYTH: Many doctors have said that there is no hope for her.

FACT: Dr. Victor Gambone testified that he visits Terri 3 times a year. His visits last for approximately 10 minutes. He also testified, after viewing the court videotapes at Terri’s recent trial, that he was surprised to see Terri’s level of awareness. This doctor is part of a team hand-picked by her husband, Michael Schiavo, shortly before he filed to have Terri’s feeding removed. Contrary to Schiavo’s team, 14 independent medical professionals (6 of them neurologists) have given either statements or testimony that Terri is NOT in a Persistent Vegetative State. Additionally, there has never been any medical dispute of Terri’s ability to swallow. Even with this compelling evidence, Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, has denied any form of therapy for her for over 10 years.

Dr. Melvin Greer, appointed by Schiavo, testified that a doctor need not examine a patient to know the appropriate medical treatment. He spent approximately 45 minutes with Terri. Dr. Peter Bambakidis, appointed by Judge Greer, spent approximately 30 minutes with Terri. Dr. Ronald Cranford, also appointed by Schiavo and who has publicly labeled himself “Dr. Death”, spent less than 45 minutes examining and interacting with Terri.

Here's more:

"You have to get it through your heads. This girl is not PVS," Robert Schindler pleaded with reporters. Dr. William Hammesfahr, a Clearwater, Fla., neurologist, told reporters Terri's eyes fixate on her family and she tries to follow simple commands, such as when doctors ask her to pull against their arm.

The husband has been trying to off her for a while now. And if his physical abuse (which is already established) was what caused the initial incident then it would also serve him well to act as her 'guardian' while denying her therapy that could have potentially helped her (and maybe implicate him).

1993

Feb - Michael Schiavo denies recommended rehabilitation treatment.

Feb - Schiavo and Terri's parents have falling out regarding lack of therapy for Terri.

Feb - Schiavo withholds medical information from Terri's parents.

Feb - Schiavo posts Do not Resuscitate order in Terri's medical chart.

Jun - Schiavo threatens Schindler family with lawsuit.

Aug - Schiavo orders medical staff not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection.

Sep - Bob and Mary Schindler petition courts to remove Schiavo as Terri's guardian.

Nov - Schiavo admits in deposition that he knew withholding treatment of infection could result in Terri's death.

1994

Feb - Judge Penick dismisses guardianship suit.

Apr - Terri moved to Palm Gardens Nursing Home.

1995

Sep - Schiavo orders Palm Gardens not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection.

1996

Jun - Terri's parents obtain court order for access to Terri's medical records.

1997

May - Judge Shames approves Schiavo action to remove Terri's nutrition and hydration.

Jul - Schiavo's engagement to Jodi Centonze announced.

Aug - Attorney Felos's letter notifying Terri's parents of action to remove Terri's nutrition and hydration.

Independent doctors have said she is not in a vegetative state. She has never explicitly said she wants the plug pulled, and her husband only came up with the idea years later. Give Terry a chance you bastards.

:213:

[impure]

i thought that aiding in suicide was illegal.
am i wrong?
even if she does want to die, wouldn't it be illegal to help her?

[MissBehavior]

Wum, unless you can post something that isn't biased, don't bother.

You're wasting the bandwidth of the site.

[wum]

^ that's like your favorite word now isn't it :)

[Dead Mike]

u know whats really sad about this...is that theyre trying to end her life by starving her to death...thats jus fucking barbaric. its not like its life support where u can pull the plug because theyre living on machines...shes still alive on her own shes jus mentally not there. in her mind she must be in pure agony knowing that shes hungry and cant tell someone that. its a brutal situaion, and it makes me sad jus thinking about it.

[FlorpIncarnate]

Just as a side note:

It is illuminating to note that when people call other people biased, they usually fall on opposite sides of the issue at hand. How convenient!

Calling someone's opinion "biased" with the intention to discredit their argument is illogical. It may not be glaringly obvious in this case, but saying something like that is actually an example of argumentum ad hominem. In this context, the general form would look like this: "X has made an argument. X is always biased. Therefore, X's argument is false"

Applying this to a news source, while not technically an ad hominem fallacy, is the same basic idea. "This news source is always biased, therefore anything it says is false".

Be careful! While it may be easy to pigeonhole people or groups of people into ideological groups and assume that everything they say is wrong, it isn't logical, and should be avoided! There are often truths to be found on both sides of an issue.

Cheers!

[wum]

Today is day seven of Terri without her feeding tube. This is the longest she's gone without sustainance. Previous to this she went six days before regional legislature intervened.

[wum]

http://www.terrisfight.net/

[MissBehavior]

Originally Posted by FlorpIncarnate

Just as a side note:

It is illuminating to note that when people call other people biased, they usually fall on opposite sides of the issue at hand. How convenient!

Calling someone's opinion "biased" with the intention to discredit their argument is illogical. It may not be glaringly obvious in this case, but saying something like that is actually an example of argumentum ad hominem. In this context, the general form would look like this: "X has made an argument. X is always biased. Therefore, X's argument is false"

Applying this to a news source, while not technically an ad hominem fallacy, is the same basic idea. "This news source is always biased, therefore anything it says is false".

Be careful! While it may be easy to pigeonhole people or groups of people into ideological groups and assume that everything they say is wrong, it isn't logical, and should be avoided! There are often truths to be found on both sides of an issue.

Cheers!

Stoned now.

Will comment later.

[Revolver]

let the poor lady die in peace. do you call what she is living? dont you think the after life would be a better place for her.

this whole news story is sad sick and disgusting.

if she cant naturally sustain life on her own....then let her soul pass on.

its almost as if her soul is being kept captive by medical teknowlogie.

its all wrong.

[impure]

denying someone food and "pulling the plug" are so diffrent to me.

did anyone else watch the daily show lastnight?

they were talking about terri. and making fun of fox.

"and leave it up to fox to bring on the best expert"
then they show a clip of fox and the "expert" some psychic.
oh yes, the daily show is good for a laugh.

[wum]

heaven help us. i'm listening to a webcast where they say she's gasping and her skin is cracking and her eyes are sinking in. if they wanna kill her, at least do it humanely. :239:

[TheCooker]

Give a man a fish, and he eat's for a day

Teach a man to fish, and he eat's for a lifetime

[impure]

Originally Posted by wum

heaven help us. i'm listening to a webcast where they say she's gasping and her skin is cracking and her eyes are sinking in. if they wanna kill her, at least do it humanely. :239:

heaven help us, wum believes everything he hears or reads on the internet.

come on now, i heard she's showed obvious signs of dehydration and malnutrition but skin cracking and gasping?
really, you need an internet crap filter.

[impure]

Originally Posted by TheCooker

Give a man a fish, and he eat's for a day

Teach a man to fish, and he eat's for a lifetime

how is this relevant?

[TheCooker]

Originally Posted by impure

how is this relevant?

it's open ended, think on it.

Keeping that tube in her was just feeding her, it's not teaching her to survive.

[wum]

Originally Posted by impure

heaven help us, wum believes everything he hears or reads on the internet.

come on now, i heard she's showed obvious signs of dehydration and malnutrition but skin cracking and gasping?
really, you need an internet crap filter.

signs of dehydration = skin cracking and gasping

edit: go to her website that I posted above. chalk full of info

[impure]

Originally Posted by TheCooker

it's open ended, think on it.

Keeping that tube in her was just feeding her, it's not teaching her to survive.

yes, but is she capable of learning in that capacity?
and is removing her one source of sustinence the right way to go about teaching her?

[impure]

Originally Posted by wum

signs of dehydration = skin cracking and gasping

edit: go to her website that I posted above. chalk full of info

yes but is this info unbiased?

[wum]

Originally Posted by impure

yes but is this info unbiased?

there are court testimonies from her nurses there.

[impure]

fair enough but you said you're listening to some online broadcast.
it sounded like an online church service

[wum]

Originally Posted by impure

fair enough but you said you're listening to some online broadcast.
it sounded like an online church service

ya, because anything that supports the right to live totally smacks of wacko Christian Fundamentalism...

[impure]

Originally Posted by wum

heaven help us. i'm listening to a webcast where they say

it just painted a religious picture in my head.

[wum]

"I was thirsty and you gave me water; I was hungry and you fed me. Whatever you do to the least of these among you, you do unto me," said Jesus.

[impure]

this does nothing to live down your bornagain christain rep wummy.

somehow quoting jesus dosn't have the same effect.