gay marriage

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by wum

well i don't believe in taxes anyway.

yeah for sure. we should just say goodbye to roads, public schools, healthcare, welfare, single mother benefits, and all those other terrible horrible public workers.

imagine how much better off we'd be if we didn't have to pay any taxes to the government.

with all that extra money we could all buy huge fancy cars! and maybe another television!

[Dj Franco]

I agree religion and government should have nothing to do with eachother thats why I said if gays want a civil jointing, ( If you want to call that marriage go ahead ) they can go do so. But like I said, Many gays have said they want the ceremony to be in a christian church, i am not a spokeperson, this is what they have said.

[sidekick]

^and many churches have performed those ceremonies. even before gay marriage was legal in certain provinces.

if you think that gay people are campaigning to have their marriages recognized by churches, then you are barking up the wrong debate tree. they are fighting for legal recognition of marriages (many of which are ALREADY recognized by churches). most queers want the legal benefits that come with marriage, for each spouse in the relationship.

yeah, some want to be married in churches, and there are plenty of churches that do that already.

the big fight by gay people isn't about fighting for recognition by religion, but recognition of equality from the government.

if you think that gay people should be allowed to have civil marriages under the eyes of the federal government (which seemed to be what you said in that post) then you are actually FOR same-sex marriage...since the fight for same-sex marriage is about that very thing.

[Chrizzy]

I have talked to alot of ppl who have said that too. they told me that they wanted to do it b/c they wanted to be excepted by the church and as christians even though it was against the religion.

[Dj Franco]

Originally Posted by Chrizzy

I have talked to alot of ppl who have said that too. they told me that they wanted to do it b/c they wanted to be excepted by the church and as christians even though it was against the religion.

You took the words right out of my mouth

[wum]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

yeah for sure. we should just say goodbye to roads, public schools, healthcare, welfare, single mother benefits, and all those other terrible horrible public workers.

imagine how much better off we'd be if we didn't have to pay any taxes to the government.

with all that extra money we could all buy huge fancy cars! and maybe another television!

*cough*private-sector*cough*

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Chrizzy

I have talked to alot of ppl who have said that too. they told me that they wanted to do it b/c they wanted to be excepted by the church and as christians even though it was against the religion.

that's a whole different ballpark than the same-sex marriage bill that is going through the government at the moment.

as far as i know the same-sex marriage bill contains a part in it that says that if a church doesn't want to perform a same-sex marriage then it doesn't have too.

the fight for recognition by religion isn't one that you go through the government to get. lots of churches already recognize same-sex marriage and gay couples and gay rights. that's a fight that people have to take on single-handidly with their own churches and religious figures.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by wum

*cough*private-sector*cough*

yeah, cause health care in the states is so hot right now!

[wum]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

yeah, cause health care in the states is so hot right now!

ya that one's always confused me

[Chrizzy]

Originally Posted by Dj Franco

You took the words right out of my mouth

When you think about it, most ppl in the world are wanting to be excepted as who they are, but if you are different then ppl will argue you points until they get you to give up.

especially if they are as stubborn as some christians are....... trust me i know from experiance..... my dad is a full fledged christian as he says it. He's totally against the gay marraiges as well

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by wum

ya that one's always confused me

maybe because a lot of the private sector companies are looking just to turn a profit more than help people get better?

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by Dj Franco

But you see gays wouldn't be happy with Marriage at a city hall, they specifically want to be married in a christian or catholic church, and thats just wrong in my opinion

How do you know what they want? Are you a gay yourself? Did you take a poll of all the gays worldwide? fill me in here.


"hey! let's go get married in the house of a religion that has persecuted us for hundreds of years! FABULOUS!"

[Chrizzy]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

that's a whole different ballpark than the same-sex marriage bill that is going through the government at the moment.

as far as i know the same-sex marriage bill contains a part in it that says that if a church doesn't want to perform a same-sex marriage then it doesn't have too.

the fight for recognition by religion isn't one that you go through the government to get. lots of churches already recognize same-sex marriage and gay couples and gay rights. that's a fight that people have to take on single-handidly with their own churches and religious figures.

That is totally true but at the same time they don't want to be excepted as a gay couple, but as we are, "normal" in the churches eyes

[(val)Liam]

*wonders about the new debate over polygomy that is starting to arise*

[wum]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

maybe because a lot of the private sector companies are looking just to turn a profit more than help people get better?

i think i'll try to investigate that one a bit more.

the only time you see the "private" sector charging more than public is when there's a form of racketeering going on.

in the case of medicine, you have to go to the root of the problem, which is the FDA that typically charges 800 million dollars just to pass a drug. Dissolve this regulatory board, and the saving get passed onto the consumer :)

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Chrizzy

That is totally true but at the same time they don't want to be excepted as a gay couple, but as we are, "normal" in the churches eyes

first of all: for the love of god (ironic?) it's 'accepted' not 'excepted'

second of all: are you kidding me?! lots of gay people LOVE having that distinction of being 'gay'. there are parades, flags, clothing, books, movies, and a whole culture built around being 'gay'.

and what you don't seem to understand is that lots of churches already accept gay couples as normal and not an abnormal lifestyle.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by wum

in the case of medicine, you have to go to the root of the problem, which is the FDA that typically charges 800 million dollars just to pass a drug. Dissolve this regulatory board, and the saving get passed onto the consumer :)

and we all get killed by drugs that have not been safety tested.

seriously though, this is a different debate.

[Chrizzy]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

first of all: for the love of god (ironic?) it's 'accepted' not 'excepted'

second of all: are you kidding me?! lots of gay people LOVE having that distinction of being 'gay'. there are parades, flags, clothing, books, movies, and a whole culture built around being 'gay'.

and what you don't seem to understand is that lots of churches already accept gay couples as normal and not an abnormal lifestyle.

Most of the ppl in the gay communnity that LOVE havin the distinction of being gay, don't beleive in a religion, this is goin to sound funny but im goin to say it any ways.......

I have a freind that is gay but really doesn't want to be!!!!! he'll check out a guy and then totally get down on himself. im sure wat it is in him but he really doesn't want to be gay, he just isn't attracted to a female

[wum]

Originally Posted by Sidekick

and we all get killed by drugs that have not been safety tested.

seriously though, this is a different debate.

not really.

modern day socialism is just a way for corporations to consolidate and monopolize. I call it neo-mercantalism, where they basically work hand in hand with the government.

The FDA will never approve an herbal remedy simply because it can't be patented, and thus it won't be able to come up with the 800 million. Which means Pfeizer can make competition illegal

Going back to my main argument though, we don't need to pay taxes and gay people don't need legal distinctions, just to get a tax break*

[wum]

Originally Posted by Chrizzy

Most of the ppl in the gay communnity that LOVE havin the distinction of being gay, don't beleive in a religion, this is goin to sound funny but im goin to say it any ways.......

I have a freind that is gay but really doesn't want to be!!!!! he'll check out a guy and then totally get down on himself. im sure wat it is in him but he really doesn't want to be gay, he just isn't attracted to a female

http://www.exodus-international.org/

[Chrizzy]

Originally Posted by wum

http://www.exodus-international.org/

Thanx for that, this is quite an interesting site

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Chrizzy

Most of the ppl in the gay communnity that LOVE havin the distinction of being gay, don't beleive in a religion, this is goin to sound funny but im goin to say it any ways.......

I have a freind that is gay but really doesn't want to be!!!!! he'll check out a guy and then totally get down on himself. im sure wat it is in him but he really doesn't want to be gay, he just isn't attracted to a female

do you not see any stupidity in what you just said? how do you know that most people in the gay community that love having the distinction of being gay aren't religious?! where do you get off saying something like that?

i have tons of gay friends who attend pride parades and love being gay and are super religious. i live by davie street (the gayest street in vancouver) and there are TWO churches right next door to my apartment building that are frequented by lots of gay people (some even holding hands as they wait to get inside for services! heaven forbid!)

be careful of mass generalizations because most of them are going to be wrong.

i'm sorry that your gay friend doesn't want to be gay. i didn't want to be gay at first either, but hell, it's something you have to come to terms with. and you know, it's really not that bad.

I think a bigger question is, should gay couples be allowed to adopt children? At first I thought no.. but after thinking about it I realized, its all about whats in the best interest of the child. If you think about it there are some AWEFUL mom/dad parents out there. Also, I dont see how having 1 mom is better than having 2 moms (lots of single parents out there).. well... i guess there would be twice the amount of nagging.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by wum

gay people don't need legal distinctions, just to get a tax break*

it's not just tax breaks. there are lots of benefits that go along with being legally married. one of them is that you can jointy own things so if your spouse dies those things are not taken away from you. there have been stories of cars and houses being taken away from gay people when their partner dies because they have no legal claim to them.

just one example of why a legal marriage is a good thing.

[Chrizzy]

I just don't understand how a gay individual can be "religious" but not beleive in the religious rules thats all, i didn't mean to affend you if i did so.