McCain or Obama

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by diva

It's completely normal to get defensive when someone suggests that the society we live in is still very much racist, and not nearly as progressive as it would like to pass itself off as being.



^But it's kind of weird that you'd only use your frame of reference when trying to prove your point.

I guess the first thing I would point out, is it was written more as a side note. I have used a fairly recent example of political propaganda within an American Party, in that point. So it's kind of weird that you said I only used my frame of reference when trying to prove my point. (Whereas, you have not put forth anything except you think people are secretly more racist then they would like to let on).

Which leads us to...

Are you talking about racism in general, or racism in politics? Because your previous statement didn't indicate that you were making a reference to the political process...

I guess you missed:

"An excellent example of American Racism vs Canadian Racism in the political system, is the "If Obama was won, could we still call it the white house?" buttons sold at Republican conventions."

Canada is hardly the most progressive country in existance, but as I stated at first, Canada does not have politics that are as racially charged as the American's. And is not the same issue that it is in Canada.

Although your arguement is based around that more people are secretly racist, so I'm not sure what I can say that would disprove you...

[diva]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Although your arguement is based around that more people are secretly racist, so I'm not sure what I can say that would disprove you...

That's not my argument at all. My argument was that eventhough most Canadians wouldn't go on camera, like we saw a few americans do during this election, and openly make racist remarks, there are still a lot of other ways that many people in our country are racist. There's nothing secret about it. Covert doesn't mean secret.

It's a cultural thing, really. Canadians are very similar to the British in the way that we feel the need to be polite about a lot of things. The good old British tact. British grace. British manners. British properness.

Americans aren't like that. They're more open about their views. More brash.

[miss.myra]

"I'm not racist, some of my best presidents are black"

[diva]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

"I'm not racist, some of my best presidents are black"

"i'm not racist but can you please clean the toilet in this bathroom? oops, you're not the cleaning lady. sorry." *very polite smile*

[EPID3MIK-7]

Now when people read statements like "that some Canadians and Americians are racist",
I really really hope they are not just only picturing Caucasians being racist. Being a mutli-cultural country, there are MANY MANY forms of racism and reversed racism that need to be addressed and stopped.

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by diva

That's not my argument at all. My argument was that eventhough most Canadians wouldn't go on camera, like we saw a few americans do during this election, and openly make racist remarks, there are still a lot of other ways that many people in our country are racist. There's nothing secret about it. Covert doesn't mean secret.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

There is no way either of us will be right or wrong. I guess you could call me an optimist, and would hope that people could understand race shouldn't enter into the political arena...

[diva]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

guess you could call me an optimist

no, delusional.

[Pussy*Kat]

So much hostility

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by diva

no, delusional.

How so?

Can you honestly put forth the point that Canada is racist because all people have the "British" mentality without believing that your ability to understand how an entire country formed of hundreds of different ethnic groups think as delusional?

[NinjaBoy]

Originally Posted by Pussy*Kat

So much hostility

Damn that rap music!

[diva]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

How so?

Can you honestly put forth the point that Canada is racist because all people have the "British" mentality without believing that your ability to understand how an entire country formed of hundreds of different ethnic groups think as delusional?

You need to improve your reading comprehension. I didn't state that. I said that our cultural tendency to have more tact than our American counterparts makes us seem more tolerant and accepting than we might actually be.

Now stop trying to start an argument with me. I didn't say that Canada was more racist than the US. My comments were in direct response to this statement:

It's safe to say, that race does not is not nearly the issue that it is in the United States. Racism in Canada, is not near the level that American's face.

[EPID3MIK-7]

Originally Posted by NinjaBoy

Damn that rap music!

[Alex]

To do with racism, in all honesty the levels of hate and racism and intolerance in this city are astronomical in comparison to where I grew up in Alberta. Where I grew up new immigrants were welcomed in to our community and to be honest when I heard racist remarks I was astonished.

Living in the lower mainland for the past 8 years I see racism and hate on a daily basis, directed at every group(including white people..) groups segregate themselves, and it becomes hard to think of others as individuals, not as their ethnic group.

This isn't just me, studies have shown(including StatsCan) immigrants integrate and are happier when they settle in rural Canada opposed to Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal.

This shocks many living in Urban centers, as the stereotype is so that Urban dwellers are liberal and accepting, and rural dwellers are red necks and racists. It's really easy to draw a conclusion why this is. When large groups migrate to Urban center's, they don't integrate. They stay in their community(for the most part) and outsiders from their community view them as a group, not individuals. When immigrants move to rural community's where their group doesn't have a large presence, they try far harder to integrate, and others view them as individuals not as the ehtnic group they come from.

[stephen_c]

Originally Posted by diva

That's not my argument at all. My argument was that eventhough most Canadians wouldn't go on camera, like we saw a few americans do during this election, and openly make racist remarks, there are still a lot of other ways that many people in our country are racist. There's nothing secret about it. Covert doesn't mean secret.

It's a cultural thing, really. Canadians are very similar to the British in the way that we feel the need to be polite about a lot of things. The good old British tact. British grace. British manners. British properness.

Americans aren't like that. They're more open about their views. More brash.

spend some time in england outside of tourist areas, it's the opposite of that.

[Alex]

Also another study showing the income gap of new immigrants(Stats can)

"
In very large urban areas, the initial income gap was 37%; after four years, the gap was 22%. In the 12th year, it fell below 10%.
In contrast, in small urban areas the initial gap was only 14%, and in the fourth year, immigrants were earning 2% more than Canadians. This relative advantage increased over time, reaching a peak of 18% during the 11th year.
The income advantage of immigrants was even more pronounced in small towns and rural areas, where the average income of immigrants was 4% higher than that of Canadians after only one year of permanent residence."

[decypher]

Margaret Wente's recent comments in the Globe is a perfect example of overt racism in Canada today.

ps, gooobama. I was very happy to see he won but now he has some big shoes to fill heh. It'll be interesting to see the perception of president Obama compared to his monolithic campaigning image.

[stephen_c]

Originally Posted by Alex

To do with racism, in all honesty the levels of hate and racism and intolerance in this city are astronomical in comparison to where I grew up in Alberta. Where I grew up new immigrants were welcomed in to our community and to be honest when I heard racist remarks I was astonished.

Living in the lower mainland for the past 8 years I see racism and hate on a daily basis, directed at every group(including white people..) groups segregate themselves, and it becomes hard to think of others as individuals, not as their ethnic group.

This isn't just me, studies have shown(including StatsCan) immigrants integrate and are happier when they settle in rural Canada opposed to Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal.

This shocks many living in Urban centers, as the stereotype is so that Urban dwellers are liberal and accepting, and rural dwellers are red necks and racists. It's really easy to draw a conclusion why this is. When large groups migrate to Urban center's, they don't integrate. They stay in their community(for the most part) and outsiders from their community view them as a group, not individuals. When immigrants move to rural community's where their group doesn't have a large presence, they try far harder to integrate, and others view them as individuals not as the ehtnic group they come from.

it's gonna get worst when our economy turns south.
no jobs, no money = less tolerance.
financial discontent will surely exacerbate racism.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

oh i'm sorry. am i bumming you out with the stark reality that america is still a discriminatory, intolerant, right-wing, overly religious, polarized country despite voting in a somewhat left of center president who happens to be half black?

I thought that much was apparent during the election itself. You realize Obama only won the popular vote by like 3% right? and it was only days ago where the ugly underbelly of america's racism was on full display...

All I wanted was for one evening/thread to be proud of, and happy for, our neighbors to the south.

I'm not confused about the stark reality of the situation. But it still means something, dammit.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by dj_soo

could mention margaret thatcher too

She was a bit Man-ish though.

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by Grapes

All I wanted was for one evening/thread to be proud of, and happy for, our neighbors to the south.

me too

Originally Posted by Pussy*Kat

So much hostility

Totally, I just love the new direction of this thread!!

[dj_soo]

me too but then americans went and ruined the moment with all the stupid...

[miss.myra]

someone call the WAAAAAAMMMMMMBULANCE because some people don't like where the thread is going :p

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

someone call the WAAAAAAMMMMMMBULANCE because some people don't like where the thread is going :p

classic myra. =)

/thread

[dabbler]

oh c'mon, she can do better than a cliche like that. give her some credit!

[ebbomega]

What can I say? When I think of WHAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE I think of Myra.

Kinda like SHUUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUP