McCain or Obama

[miss.myra]

well i'm sorry for ruining your OMG BLACK PRESIDENT AMERICA STEPS FORWARD thread with 'oh hey actually america still has a long way to go because millions of them happened to ban gay marriage yesterday too' because it's totally related. Fuck, even in Virgina they passed a proposition that bans adoption for people who aren't married so that gay couples who can't legally marry also cannot raise a child. It's fucked. Ignorance and intolerance is just as present in American society black president or no black president and it deserves a dialogue. I'm not into not talking about it just because it brings down someone's president party.

[Alex]

^ Just going to make it clear that I have no problem with gay marriage. However when it comes to a gay couple adopting, in my opinion, the question isn't whether homosexuality is moral/immoral, or whether the couple would be responsible parents... it's simply how will the child be treated by his classmates when it comes to light said child is raised by a gay couple. Let's face it, we still don't live in a completely tolerant society(and I'd imagine less so in the USA), and children are sponges to what they hear. I can't even fathom how difficult it would be for a young child to grow up, loving his adopted parents, but being harassed and made fun of because of it day in day out. A childhood like that would probably be pretty traumatic and cause a lot of resentment.

Until our society is progressive enough to have no hostility or fear of homosexuals I believe it's unfair to the child.

Originally Posted by ebbomega

^ Then why not cite them instead of just saying "you're wrong" and not contributing to the discussion?

Psychology students dont use MLA.

:P

[fritz]

Originally Posted by Alex

Until our society is progressive enough to have no hostility or fear of homosexuals I believe it's unfair to the child.

"Let's segregate schools! It's too hard on the black children for them to mix!"

[cubed]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

Psychology students dont use MLA.

:P

I would have accepted APA formatting as well.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

well i'm sorry for ruining your OMG BLACK PRESIDENT AMERICA STEPS FORWARD thread with 'oh hey actually america still has a long way to go because millions of them happened to ban gay marriage yesterday too' because it's totally related. Fuck, even in Virgina they passed a proposition that bans adoption for people who aren't married so that gay couples who can't legally marry also cannot raise a child. It's fucked. Ignorance and intolerance is just as present in American society black president or no black president and it deserves a dialogue. I'm not into not talking about it just because it brings down someone's president party.

Does the fact that America can now elect a black man as their leader, whereas 50 years ago a black person had restrictions on which drinking fountains they could use in some areas, not indicate a positive larger picture? Not to mention the fact that we'd probably have the first woman in the White House today if Hillary had taken the Democratic nomination..

Gay people used to be forced into the closet. Today in a lot of areas of the States they are significantly more able to live their lifestyle free of persecution and prejudice. The movement took a step backwards yesterday, but who's to say four or five steps forward aren't in the foreseeable future?

What I'm getting at is, can't we take this monumental occasion (this "president party") as a bell-weather for the eventual dragging (some kicking and screaming) of America into a new social era?

Again, no-one said anything about the US of A not having a long way to go. But yesterday night they deserved our acclaim and respect.

I think trying to tell people what they can and can't talk about obviously was a non starter. Or the opposite of a non-starter.. why they throw these issues in with the presidential race I have no idea...

[Grapes]

BTW Virginia just voted for a democrat for the first time in some 50 years.

Uh, not to belabor the point, but that would be a black democrat.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Alex

^ Just going to make it clear that I have no problem with gay marriage. However when it comes to a gay couple adopting, in my opinion, the question isn't whether homosexuality is moral/immoral, or whether the couple would be responsible parents... it's simply how will the child be treated by his classmates when it comes to light said child is raised by a gay couple. Let's face it, we still don't live in a completely tolerant society(and I'd imagine less so in the USA), and children are sponges to what they hear. I can't even fathom how difficult it would be for a young child to grow up, loving his adopted parents, but being harassed and made fun of because of it day in day out. A childhood like that would probably be pretty traumatic and cause a lot of resentment.

Yes you can. If you're telling me you didn't get bugged in school because you were bigger/smaller/smarter/dumber/whatever than your peers then I'm calling you a liar.

All kids get teased, beat up, bullied, etc.... that's part of growing up.

Your entire statement here just shows that you've never met any kids raised by gay parents. Or at least that you know of.

Personally I'd rather a child raised by a same-sex couple that loves and cares for them than a heterosexual couple that didn't want it in the first place. All it will teach them is that it's just another way of living and shouldn't be frowned upon.

And if they get the schoolyard treatment then it just teaches them that people can be ignorant and pigheaded.

I don't see why either lesson should be considered a detriment. I know I learned both lessons as a kid and I don't think that caused me any problems.

[tiedye]

I'm black y'all. I'm black y'all. I'm blickity blickity black y'all.

Originally Posted by Alex

^ Just going to make it clear that I have no problem with gay marriage. However when it comes to a gay couple adopting, in my opinion, the question isn't whether homosexuality is moral/immoral, or whether the couple would be responsible parents... it's simply how will the child be treated by his classmates when it comes to light said child is raised by a gay couple. Let's face it, we still don't live in a completely tolerant society(and I'd imagine less so in the USA), and children are sponges to what they hear. I can't even fathom how difficult it would be for a young child to grow up, loving his adopted parents, but being harassed and made fun of because of it day in day out. A childhood like that would probably be pretty traumatic and cause a lot of resentment.

Until our society is progressive enough to have no hostility or fear of homosexuals I believe it's unfair to the child.

So it would be better for a child to remain un-parented than be loved adopted by a sam-sex couple? You need to re-think this idea.

And by the way, I have no idea what you experienced living in a rural area vs urban, but I can tell you ive experienced the exact opposite as far as ignorant stereo typing goes.

If anything immigrates seem to be the ones who segregate them selfs. Although I think this mostly has to do with language and culture more than race. If they can find others like them, which is highly more likely in an urban area, than they click. Where as in a rural area, the chances of a family finding an other family with the same language and culture is near impossible... therefore they're forced to integrate with the locals.

I especially see this with international students. The one kid from France integrated a lot more with the locals than the group of Italians or Koreans.

[-evil-duerr-]

when did half breeds become black people?

does this mean im black now? I fuckin knew it!!!!!!

[C_squared]

Originally Posted by Alex

^ Just going to make it clear that I have no problem with gay marriage. However when it comes to a gay couple adopting, in my opinion, the question isn't whether homosexuality is moral/immoral, or whether the couple would be responsible parents... it's simply how will the child be treated by his classmates when it comes to light said child is raised by a gay couple. Let's face it, we still don't live in a completely tolerant society(and I'd imagine less so in the USA), and children are sponges to what they hear. I can't even fathom how difficult it would be for a young child to grow up, loving his adopted parents, but being harassed and made fun of because of it day in day out. A childhood like that would probably be pretty traumatic and cause a lot of resentment.

Until our society is progressive enough to have no hostility or fear of homosexuals I believe it's unfair to the child.

[diva]

Originally Posted by -evil-duerr-

when did half breeds become black people?

does this mean im black now? I fuckin knew it!!!!!!

there used to be something called the one drop rule. if you had a drop of black in you, you had to list yourself as black. you were considered black in the census.

[diva]

One-drop rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by Alex

^ Just going to make it clear that I have no problem with gay marriage. However when it comes to a gay couple adopting, in my opinion, the question isn't whether homosexuality is moral/immoral, or whether the couple would be responsible parents... it's simply how will the child be treated by his classmates when it comes to light said child is raised by a gay couple. Let's face it, we still don't live in a completely tolerant society(and I'd imagine less so in the USA), and children are sponges to what they hear. I can't even fathom how difficult it would be for a young child to grow up, loving his adopted parents, but being harassed and made fun of because of it day in day out. A childhood like that would probably be pretty traumatic and cause a lot of resentment.

Until our society is progressive enough to have no hostility or fear of homosexuals I believe it's unfair to the child.

Ask my buddy Skylar how he felt about having two dads, im sure youd be surprised at how big of a deal it isn't

[stephen_c]

.....

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

"I'm not racist, some of my best presidents are black"

'im not racist ive fucked all sortz of bitches, 'cept for those thiving hindus!'

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Personally I'd rather a child raised by a same-sex couple that loves and cares for them than a heterosexual couple that didn't want it in the first place.

You're assuming I think otherwise. I don't. Personally I believe reproducing in our society should be a privilege and not a right. If it was a privilege adoption would become obsolete(nearly)

[Alex]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

So it would be better for a child to remain un-parented than be loved adopted by a sam-sex couple? You need to re-think this idea.

And by the way, I have no idea what you experienced living in a rural area vs urban, but I can tell you ive experienced the exact opposite as far as ignorant stereo typing goes.

If anything immigrates seem to be the ones who segregate them selfs. Although I think this mostly has to do with language and culture more than race. If they can find others like them, which is highly more likely in an urban area, than they click. Where as in a rural area, the chances of a family finding an other family with the same language and culture is near impossible... therefore they're forced to integrate with the locals.

I especially see this with international students. The one kid from France integrated a lot more with the locals than the group of Italians or Koreans.

My experience + Studies by Stats Can and other private research backing it up trumps your personal experience with no studies backing it up.

[-evil-duerr-]

Originally Posted by diva

there used to be something called the one drop rule. if you had a drop of black in you, you had to list yourself as black. you were considered black in the census.

ah i see...

I just seems silly to me that everyone calls obama a black guy considering mixed race people are their own race entirely.

[Courtney]

Originally Posted by Alex
^ Just going to make it clear that I have no problem with gay marriage. However when it comes to a gay couple adopting, in my opinion, the question isn't whether homosexuality is moral/immoral, or whether the couple would be responsible parents... it's simply how will the child be treated by his classmates when it comes to light said child is raised by a gay couple. Let's face it, we still don't live in a completely tolerant society(and I'd imagine less so in the USA), and children are sponges to what they hear. I can't even fathom how difficult it would be for a young child to grow up, loving his adopted parents, but being harassed and made fun of because of it day in day out. A childhood like that would probably be pretty traumatic and cause a lot of resentment.

You're right, maybe this isn't the most ideal growing up situation in terms of what you might face..But there are a lot worse things. Children that grow up in a family with either one or two addict parents, sexual abuse,physical abuse,foster care life. How about losing both or one of your parents before you reach adulthood. Facing the stigmatization of being aboriginal in a white dominated school, living with your new to the country parents that can't speak a word of english...
ETC ETC

[Courtney]

there are a lot of things we cannot fathom.....

[Alex]

I don't even see how the colour of his skin should be relevant(obviously it still is)

I mean from a cultural stand point he was raised by his white mother and white grandparents, meeting his father only once I think it was after he was 2 years old.

The guy is Columbia/Harvard educated. Culturally he is really no different than the majority of other politicians.

Voting for Obama simply because his skin is black and it is a 'step forward' is just as racist as not voting for him because of the colour of his skin.

If you want to look at this election and remove everything but the actual political standings, a large majority of Americans share beliefs closer to McCain than Obama.

Don't get me wrong I'm not against someone with a different skin colour being the President, it probably should have happened a long time ago, I'm just curious if most Americans voted for Obama for the right reason- his politics.

[Alex]

Courtney, you're assuming my beliefs and standing on other issues.

I believe parenting should be a privilege you have to earn and work for, not a right.

Just because other situations are less ideal, doesn't make the situation under debate ideal.

[Courtney]

^ I agree with you Alex in some ways...for sure this isn't a real change..it is just a surface or band aid change however I think its good in that even if it isn't perfect it has paved the way for further equality which will lead to positive change