gay marriage

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Dj Franco

Whatever you say won't convince me that people can be born being gay.

So you admit you won't listen to logic?

[wum]

even if you're born gay, it doesn't make it right.

some people are born with a predisposition towards gambling, alcoholism, etc. The argument being made seems to be about fatalism. The bible says we are born into sin. And i suppose different people are born into different sinful lifestyles. the key is to be tranformed through faith and God's love.

again, this is from the Biblical perspective.

[ebbomega]

I've been transformed through faith and god's love, thanks.

Nowhere did God tell me "homosexuality is wrong" except in a book that is written in a language I don't understand that has had effective numbers of attempted translations, none of which really actually explain what the book is saying.

In the same book where they picked about 80 thousand things that you're not allowed to do and things you have to, mind you. Stuff that not a single person in the world follows any more.

I'm not debating that bible says it. I'm fully aware of what the Bible says. I've read it more than most Christians. I'm debating that the bible is wrong.

[wum]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

I'm not debating that bible says it. I'm fully aware of what the Bible says. I've read it more than most Christians. I'm debating that the bible is wrong.

so if homos find the Bible repugnant, then why do they want to be married in a Christian church?

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by wum

so if homos find the Bible repugnant, then why do they want to be married in a Christian church?

1) I'm not a homo
2) I don't find it repugnant.

Church isn't about the Bible.

Jesus wanted people to get together. To communicate. Don't worry about the things that people deem "unacceptable" behaviour. Hang out with the prostitutes, the lepers, the whores... all the people that were deemed "wrong" by the social institution.

Within 100 years of his death (supposedly when Jesus erroneously prophesized his Second Coming) they had codified what Jesus had said and turned it into another set of morals. Another institution of what he was trying to bring down in the first place. And it's been there for 2000 years.

Christians are supposed to be a community under Christ. That's the idea. And that they can use Christ as a medium to praise God... this person that came down from heaven supposedly and taught us how God wanted us to live: together.

Church isn't about God. It's about community, communion, and fellowship.

If you think it's something else, you've missed the point.

[MissBehavior]

Originally Posted by Dj Franco

First i just want to clear that fact that i do not hate gays. I've said this already, I dont hate them, i dont hate Sidekick, hes probably a very nice guy. I dont hate them i just disagree with being gay. Whatever you say won't convince me that people can be born being gay.

If it's not at least TOLERANCE, it's hate. It may not be the type that'll go out and beat people to death for being gay, but it is still the type that'll teach children that it's okay to treat people badly for being different.

[wum]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Within 100 years of his death (supposedly when Jesus erroneously prophesized his Second Coming) they had codified what Jesus had said and turned it into another set of morals.

How was it erroneous?

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Another institution of what he was trying to bring down in the first place. And it's been there for 2000 years.

hmm, i dunno about that

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Christians are supposed to be a community under Christ. That's the idea. And that they can use Christ as a medium to praise God... this person that came down from heaven supposedly and taught us how God wanted us to live: together.

it sounds like you're preaching pantheism.

The word "Holy" actually means to be "seperate"

The mandate was that we live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. Yes, Jesus did hang out with everyone but those people were eventually changed. Tax collectors did not remain tax collectors.

I know it sounds better if we would just accept people and be non-judgmental, but that's the relativist-inter-faithism one world religion of the anti-christ. the devil is tricky like that

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Church isn't about God. It's about community, communion, and fellowship.

If you think it's something else, you've missed the point.

Church isn't about God? You make it sound like a social club.

Anyway, we've totally digressed and I'm totally out of steam when it comes to this thread. meh.

[wum]

Originally Posted by MissBehavior

If it's not at least TOLERANCE, it's hate. It may not be the type that'll go out and beat people to death for being gay, but it is still the type that'll teach children that it's okay to treat people badly for being different.

i don't think it's fair to equate intolerance with hatred.

just because I don't let just anyone come into my house or private property doesn't mean i neccessarily "hate" them. I'd just rather no't associate with them. I'm sure you're the same way.

[MissBehavior]

Originally Posted by wum

i don't think it's fair to equate intolerance with hatred.

just because I don't let just anyone come into my house or private property doesn't mean i neccessarily "hate" them. I'd just rather no't associate with them. I'm sure you're the same way.

Apples and oranges to the topic at hand, wummy.

[Tayfoon]

I didnt read anything but the first post and the last page

This isnt grade 11 socials class, this is the real world


Your self rightous opinions count for jack shit

[Jen-E-03]

Originally Posted by Dj Franco

I don't want to be prejudice or anything so I wont completley speak my mind on this topic. But what I will say is, Gay people can do whatever they want, but i think they should stay away from Marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman and thats the way it should stay.

Marriage is for two people who love eachother...doesn't matter what gender they are!! u fucking moron

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by wum

Church isn't about God? You make it sound like a social club.

You make it sound like anything more.

It's this little club. With these little rules. Sometimes they put signs out on the door... like "no homos allowed" or "you have to agree to our terms". Most of the time they scream about how if you don't do what they say, you'll be stuck for eternity in a place nobody in recent years can attest to having been, but what we do know about it is that you won't like it.

If religion is supposed to be an expression of inner spirituality, then Catholicism ceased to be a religion ages ago.

"You people don't celebrate your faith, you mourn it."

[Dj Franco]

Originally Posted by Jen-E-03

Marriage is for two people who love eachother...doesn't matter what gender they are!! u fucking moron

Ya your right, maybe it is ok to be gay

[MissBehavior]

Originally Posted by Tayfoon

I didnt read anything but the first post and the last page

This isnt grade 11 socials class, this is the real world


Your self rightous opinions count for jack shit

Maybe you should read what you've written before you go throwing stones.

Didn't your Jesus say "Let he who is WITHOUT SIN cast the first stone"?

I highly doubt you are sinless. :)

[wum]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

You make it sound like anything more.

It's this little club. With these little rules. Sometimes they put signs out on the door... like "no homos allowed" or "you have to agree to our terms". Most of the time they scream about how if you don't do what they say, you'll be stuck for eternity in a place nobody in recent years can attest to having been, but what we do know about it is that you won't like it.

If religion is supposed to be an expression of inner spirituality, then Catholicism ceased to be a religion ages ago.

"You people don't celebrate your faith, you mourn it."

if you wanna define your own reality, become a crack smoking New Ager.

I know it's difficult to accept a moral standard, because it entails responsibility, but having law tells you your face is dirty. Anything less than that is a disingenuous way to live.

[Ryan Ross]

Originally Posted by wum

if you wanna define your own reality, become a crack smoking New Ager.
I know it's difficult to accept a moral standard, because it entails responsibility, but having law tells you your face is dirty. Anything less than that is a disingenuous way to live.

I was going to stay out of this thread but this was just to much... Where do you pull this logic from? People who dont live their lives by someone elses interpretation of a book arent crack smoking new agers, they are trying to make sense of the world based on their own beliefs rather than having it given to them from a ready built mold.

How can you accuse the people who accept gay marriage of not accepting moral standard? Im sure the people who have been arguing with you in this thread have plenty of moral standards, they just (i know this is going to be hard for you to understand...) got it from somewhere other than a religious figure who preaches intolerance towards gays.

You seem to think religion=morals, no religion=no morals and thats a load of crap.

[Ryan Ross]

Originally Posted by Dj Franco

God made this world, if everyone were gay the world would end. That is why it doesn't make sense for god to be in favor of gays.

Good logic! Get this, if everyone in the world were male, the world would end! I always knew god was against men. Giving us these penises, what good are they anyway? Everytime I take it out I get arrested, "Sir, you cant take off youre pants in the mall", bullshit I tell you.

This discussion isnt about what YOU think god is in favor of or hates (or sorry, doesnt approve of, what with all his love and all). Its about giving people equal rights. Religious beliefs have no place in law and should have no part in the restriction of peoples freedoms.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by wum

if you wanna define your own reality, become a crack smoking New Ager.

I know it's difficult to accept a moral standard, because it entails responsibility, but having law tells you your face is dirty. Anything less than that is a disingenuous way to live.

I've learned that when you put too much responsibility on yourself that is unnecessary you're just making yourself needlessly unhappy and burying yourself into a hole you don't need to be in.

Worry less about what you can't do and more about what you can.

Having law tells you what other people think.

[ebbomega]

Let me put it this way.

George W. Bush got re-elected, supposedly, because of moral issues.

What does this say for morality?

[wum]

Originally Posted by Blunted

I was going to stay out of this thread but this was just to much... Where do you pull this logic from? People who dont live their lives by someone elses interpretation of a book arent crack smoking new agers, they are trying to make sense of the world based on their own beliefs rather than having it given to them from a ready built mold.

How can you accuse the people who accept gay marriage of not accepting moral standard? Im sure the people who have been arguing with you in this thread have plenty of moral standards, they just (i know this is going to be hard for you to understand...) got it from somewhere other than a religious figure who preaches intolerance towards gays.

You seem to think religion=morals, no religion=no morals and thats a load of crap.

actually i was responding to ebbomega, who was kind of saying something in the spirit of "do what feels good. don't judge" etc.

i'm sure non-religion people can be good people. but where does morality ultimately come from?

[wum]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

I've learned that when you put too much responsibility on yourself that is unnecessary you're just making yourself needlessly unhappy and burying yourself into a hole you don't need to be in.

Worry less about what you can't do and more about what you can.

Having law tells you what other people think.

good point. although it's hard to wrest myself away from it sometimes. meh

[spunsugar]

Originally Posted by ebbomega

You make it sound like anything more.

It's this little club. With these little rules. Sometimes they put signs out on the door... like "no homos allowed" or "you have to agree to our terms". Most of the time they scream about how if you don't do what they say, you'll be stuck for eternity in a place nobody in recent years can attest to having been, but what we do know about it is that you won't like it.

If religion is supposed to be an expression of inner spirituality, then Catholicism ceased to be a religion ages ago.

"You people don't celebrate your faith, you mourn it."

my thoughts exactly. "the church" doesn't so much represent christianity anymore as much as it creaks through mouldy ideas and old antiquated ideals. christianity isn't supposed to be about telling people they are wrong, and that they're going to hell. but lately it seems like that is all there is.

[acidic_liquid]

I just find it funny how people are so stubbornly set in their own beliefs that they disregard every post that goes against these. Then, much later, when another stubborn person makes a posts, they immediately notices that and immediately thinks it validates their own beliefs.

It doesn't matter what the other side says, or if the other side completely discredits their own beliefs.

Because, you know, everything's concrete. We can only see things one way.

If God himself actually comes down to Earth and announces that being gay is okay, I wouldn't be surprised if some people would still have negative thoughts. Some would probably dismiss the "God" to be fake.

How can people be so closed-minded??? I can't fathom how trapped I'd feel.

[diva]

I want to beat wum up.

Or maybe I want to hump him.

He's pretty hot for a biggot.

Come on, wum. Once you go black......

*slurp*

[SEAN!]

Originally Posted by wum

but where does morality ultimately come from?

Compassion