Would you support opening the border to young Americans so we can escape Bush's hell?

[(val)Liam]

Originally Posted by wum

I think everyone will be changing their tune if they had to be forcibly drafted into a bullshit war where the ground is glowing with cancer causing depleted uranium.

I was just about to mention something along those lines... if the US starts drafting people for these wars I'll accept people coming through the border... but if there was a draft, I think there would be an outright coup in the states...

[diva]

^ We still don't accept everyone who's living in war ravaged countries, why should we accept ppl living in the fucking richest country in the world? No fucking way.

They can leave repubican dominiated states like texas and move to places where people have they same values that they do.

What you ppl don't understand is that they have 300 or so million ppl living in that country and only half of them are republicans. More than enough room for people to move around and figure out where they belong.

Or, like rawb said, they can come live here as long as they don't live in any cities with populations over 30k, bring any fire arms with them, or live near any bodies of water (unless we're talking labrador or the territories).

They claim to be the strongest democracy in the world, so let them exercise that democratic right and change things in their country. Besides, they wouldn't like it here anyways. Too many slant eyes, curry clouds, and cowardly french ppl.

[wum]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

they actually increase disproprianately.

immigrantion tends to create jobs, immigrants also tend to pay far more taxes relative to the amount of social services they use compared non-immigrant canaidnas.

the arguements regarding immigrants taking jobs and wasting social resources are empirically baseless and often serve as a smokescreen for blatant racism.

Swedes Reach Muslim Breaking Point

MALMO, Sweden — Swedish authorities in the southern city of Malmo (search) have been busy with a sudden influx of Muslim immigrants — 90 percent of whom are unemployed and many who are angry and taking it out on the country that took them in.

Something Rotten in Denmark?

Living on the dole: Third-world immigrants - most of them Muslims from countries such as Turkey, Somalia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Iraq - constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending.

[wum]

Originally Posted by diva

^ We still don't accept everyone who's living in war ravaged countries, why should we accept ppl living in the fucking richest country in the world? No fucking way.

They can leave repubican dominiated states like texas and move to places where people have they same values that they do.

What you ppl don't understand is that they have 300 or so million ppl living in that country and only half of them are republicans. More than enough room for people to move around and figure out where they belong.

Or, like rawb said, they can come live here as long as they don't live in any cities with populations over 30k, bring any fire arms with them, or live near any bodies of water (unless we're talking labrador or the territories).

They claim to be the strongest democracy in the world, so let them exercise that democratic right and change things in their country. Besides, they wouldn't like it here anyways. Too many slant eyes, curry clouds, and cowardly french ppl.

The point is that they don't want or deserve to be drafted into the NWO War Machine.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner. Plato said it was the worst form of government, as it tended to create demagogues.

I think the fact that you had millions of people marching in the street in demonstrations to stop the invasion of Iraq really says something.

As for the rest, I think you should really tone down the racism

[diva]

^ If I didn't have to write a final in 2.5 hours, I'd totally school you like I always do on this board.

I'll just respond to the response you gave SEAN!

99% of immigrants in this country are educated and are not a drain on society. In fact, you can't even immigrate to this country without either a) showing that you have the means to support yourself without relying on government handouts for at least ten years or b) having someone sponsor you who will agree to support you for ten years

It's really hard for most people from developing countries to even get a visiting VISA to Canada. My grandpa got a visa to come and visit 15 years ago, but got denied this time around. But he got approved for a one year US VISA and is staying with my aunt in Connecticut right now.

Seriously, you're the dumbest shit i've met in a while.

I got sucked in again.
*cries*

[dapimpstress]

Originally Posted by diva

^ We still don't accept everyone who's living in war ravaged countries, why should we accept ppl living in the fucking richest country in the world? No fucking way.

They can leave repubican dominiated states like texas and move to places where people have they same values that they do.

What you ppl don't understand is that they have 300 or so million ppl living in that country and only half of them are republicans. More than enough room for people to move around and figure out where they belong.

Or, like rawb said, they can come live here as long as they don't live in any cities with populations over 30k, bring any fire arms with them, or live near any bodies of water (unless we're talking labrador or the territories).

They claim to be the strongest democracy in the world, so let them exercise that democratic right and change things in their country. Besides, they wouldn't like it here anyways. Too many slant eyes, curry clouds, and cowardly french ppl.

Obviously YOU do not understand. REGAURDless of the fact that we have 300 million people, that does NOT mean that moving to a more "liberal" area is going to do ANYTHING. I live in Seattle, WA girl, THE MOST liberal place in the country.

I still have to deal with my rights being taken away more every minute. The feds rule all the states, not just the ones like texas sweety. In fact, 2 days ago the supreme court ruled that regaurdless of whether or not someone has a state mandated liscence to grow marijuanna, for personal use, in cases of cancer and such, they can still be punished by the feds. Before it had not been officially decided though it was the general consensus. Now they have nothing to fight back with and many people's lives will be changed by this.

Who appoints the supreme court justices?

I have always believed that what the Supreme Court decides has a greater impact on our day-to-day life than anything our state legislatures do, or even the activities of the Congress. Because, in the end, our representatives can pass all of the laws they want or see fit to, but if the Supreme Court does not sign off with its stamp of approval, the legislation, no matter how well meaning or necessary or popular, is finished.
As we all know, there are 9 Supreme Court justices who are appointed for life by the president, with the advice and consent of the Senate. By appointing the justices to life terms, the framers of the Constitution attempted to insulate them from political pressure. They wanted the justices to be able to make their calls almost in a vacuum, certainly a political vacuum.

They wanted the decisions to be made on well-reasoned principle and law, and if the justices were on the bench for life they would not be beholden to any group or vulnerable to the electorate who might take issue with their decisions and decide to vote them out of office. This however, of course, does not happen often in the Federal Supreme Court, but has happened more in situations of State Supreme Courts.

I'm simply attempting to make the point, that there are many ways in which our rights are infringed, and despite the fact that some of our state laws are more lenient, that doesn't mean that you cannot still be reprimanded and given jail time for such incidences.

[b0ld]

I think one needs to realize that just pointing to finger at bush for everything is rather stupid. If you look at the previous presidents even before Reagan they have always put embargo's and sanctions on other countries. Supplying weapons to other countries to be used to invade one's territory. This has been the same god damn situation time and time again regardless if its a republican or democrat government. Governments don't vote each other in... people do and this is what the people of the united states elect because they refuse to open there eye's realize just what the hell is going on in this world. Instead they want to live the so called american dream and show patriotism (more like extremism) to the whole world. Well things obviously got twisted didn't it?

[rawb]

you have a responsibility to make your stupid country not so fucking lame
the right wings are doing their job why do you guys need to run away

[dapimpstress]

Originally Posted by rawb

you have a responsibility to make your stupid country not so fucking lame
the right wings are doing their job why do you guys need to run away

I have some responsibility to my country, to attempt to change something, however, in the last 3 years, after working on various projects involving elections, campaigns, and events aimed at changing the republican dominated situation I live in, I have realized that my efforts are to no avail. At this point it is going to take something extremely drastic, and not something which myself, or any small group of people could instigate; to change what is going on.

After coming to this realization, I no longer want to waste my time on a never-ending uphill battle. I would rather leave the country until the evevitable demise occurs, and come back when it is rebuilding itself, and do what I can then. For now, that's the best I can bring myself to realistically hope for.

[rawb]

hella quitter wtf

[dapimpstress]

I don't think you have any idea how many projects I have worked on. And let me tell you man it's fucking tiring. I am TIRED of trying so hard.

Call me a quitter if you like, but for me, life is about finding happiness... no preimposed obligation of responsibility to my country will stop me from finding that. I am not willing to sacrifice my life because so many before me have wreaked such havock on our political systems.

Though I am willing to help, I am not willing to work so hard only to see so many people destroy what work we are attempting to do. It's heartbreaking. Obviously you have no experience in this incidence or you would be a little more empathetic.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I have some responsibility to my country, to attempt to change something, however, in the last 3 years, after working on various projects involving elections, campaigns, and events aimed at changing the republican dominated situation I live in, I have realized that my efforts are to no avail. At this point it is going to take something extremely drastic, and not something which myself, or any small group of people could instigate; to change what is going on.

After coming to this realization, I no longer want to waste my time on a never-ending uphill battle. I would rather leave the country until the evevitable demise occurs, and come back when it is rebuilding itself, and do what I can then. For now, that's the best I can bring myself to realistically hope for.

This equates to nothing more than running away, letting someone else do all the work, and then coming back with your tail between your legs does it not?

Where's the pride in that? Aren't Americans supposed to be patriotic??

[rawb]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I don't think you have any idea how many projects I have worked on. And let me tell you man it's fucking tiring. I am TIRED of trying so hard.

Call me a quitter if you like, but for me, life is about finding happiness... no preimposed obligation of responsibility to my country will stop me from finding that. I am not willing to sacrifice my life because so many before me have wreaked such havock on our political systems.

Though I am willing to help, I am not willing to work so hard only to see so many people destroy what work we are attempting to do. It's heartbreaking. Obviously you have no experience in this incidence or you would be a little more empathetic.

so you are willing to put your personal happiness before the greater good, let everyone else do the work, and then move back.

that's totally awesome. what rights are freedoms are you gaining when you move to canada again? it's not like you're being shot at or castrated or anything

[dapimpstress]

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

This equates to nothing more than running away, letting someone else do all the work, and then coming back with your tail between your legs does it not?

Where's the pride in that? Aren't Americans supposed to be patriotic??

see above post. it's not about pride. it's about having only so much time to your life, and knowing how you want to spend it. it's also not about letting someone else do all the work.

I'm telling you that all the work is failing, and most likely will continue to fail, until something huge and drastic occurs (a depression for example) that will shock people back to the reality that we can't be such a divided nation based on fascist principles. And when that downfall comes, will be the time to attempt a new way.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Either way.... sure it sucks for you guys but how does that make it our problem? Why the hell do you think it's your god given right to come up here because you don't want to deal?

Not trying to be nasty, just posing the question......

[dapimpstress]

Originally Posted by rawb

so you are willing to put your personal happiness before the greater good, let everyone else do the work, and then move back.

that's totally awesome. what rights are freedoms are you gaining when you move to canada again? it's not like you're being shot at or castrated or anything

I'm NOT even saying I'm going to go to Canada. There are plenty of places I would rather move than that.

How can you not put your personal happiness before the "greater good"??That's what makes you human pal. That's why humans survive over all other animals. The need to protect themselves.

It's not because of ethics that people think about it being "wrong" to kill someone. It's because of the fear of being murdered themselves, the fact that they wouldn't want it to happen to them, that keeps them from hurting someone else, and keeps them "pushing" for ethical values.

I am not being shot at no, but I may be drafted and that is just as bad.

[dapimpstress]

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

Either way.... sure it sucks for you guys but how does that make it our problem? Why the hell do you think it's your god given right to come up here because you don't want to deal?

Not trying to be nasty, just posing the question......

Who the hell said it was my "god given right" to come there? This thread itself is simply posing the question as to whether or not YOU think we SHOULD have the right.

1> I don't believe in god.
2> It isn't your problem, I never said it was.
3> I don't believe that I have any such rights to move to your country over any other.
4> It is your country's laws that permit such actions when accomplished through the proper channels.

[b0ld]

Well lets see the last presidential election was pretty close. And if there were that many people who opposed then why didn't they stand up for what they believed in and hold up protests??? I mean christ an election only means one thing but when it comes down to public opinion it comes down to another. If one were to have a wide group of protesters then obviously people who were for the government would see the amount of humanity in the protest and protest against the government. Seriously I honestly believe the people in the united states are absolutely chicken shit to protest. They don't got the balls at all. They won't stand up for what they believe in. Instead all they will do is hope for "next time". Guess what the next government will still have still embargo's and sanctions and still fuck over other countries. Do you honestly believe that united states will ever change? Has it ever had its time in history where it has?. It won't because it can't simply because the mentality that people have there. Besides a real "liberal" doesn't run away.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Who the hell said it was my "god given right" to come there? This thread itself is simply posing the question as to whether or not YOU think we SHOULD have the right.

Thnaks for pointing it out so clearly.... I NEVER would have figured that out on my own.

In short form my answer is NO

[rawb]

Originally Posted by Ashes

How can you not put your personal happiness before the "greater good"??That's what makes you human pal. That's why humans survive over all other animals. The need to protect themselves.

i think the human idea of existance being more than personal survival is one of the defining things that keeps us from being animals.

im pretty sure what will make or break us as a species is our choice between personal gain and the greater good. women's sufferage, ghandi, attica... countless times where people sacrificed their personal happiness to make things better for others.


ps:

As much as I too would love to relocate to Canada, the process for such a move is becoming increasingly more difficult, thanks to the Canadian government.

It would be nice to feel like it was actually an option though.

[dapimpstress]

Originally Posted by b0ld

Well lets see the last presidential election was pretty close. And if there were that many people who opposed then why didn't they stand up for what they believed in and hold up protests??? I mean christ an election only means one thing but when it comes down to public opinion it comes down to another. If one were to have a wide group of protesters then obviously people who were for the government would see the amount of humanity in the protest and protest against the government. Seriously I honestly believe the people in the united states are absolutely chicken shit to protest. They don't got the balls at all. They won't stand up for what they believe in. Instead all they will do is hope for "next time". Guess what the next government will still have still embargo's and sanctions and still fuck over other countries. Do you honestly believe that united states will ever change? Has it ever had its time in history where it has?. It won't because it can't simply because the mentality that people have there. Besides a real "liberal" doesn't run away.

I am not claiming to be a real "liberal". I am only myself. And did you not notice the MILLIONS of people all over the states protesting the Iraq war? And lotta good it did us. I went to at least 8 protests against that myself.

So how can you say we are too "chicken shit" to stand up for what we believe. You obviously don't have much info backing that statement.

Do i honestly believe they'll change? Eventually yes, in the near future? It's not looking like it. Thanks for reitterating my point.

Originally Posted by Cdn_Brdr

Thnaks for pointing it out so clearly.... I NEVER would have figured that out on my own.

In short form my answer is NO

If you knew that already then your earlier post doesn't make much sense. Thanks for your answer.

Originally Posted by rawb

i think the human idea of existance being more than personal survival is one of the defining things that keeps us from being animals.

im pretty sure what will make or break us as a species is our choice between personal gain and the greater good. women's sufferage, ghandi, attica... countless times where people sacrificed their personal happiness to make things better for others.

I think that what sets us apart from animals is the ability to think about such things. The ability to percieve concepts of past, present, and future. This can be applyed to the idea of exhistence being more than survival, however I do also believe that it is the natural ability to analyze these things that really sets us apart.

I recently watched a film on chimpanzees. This particular film was directed at an incidence with a group of 25 or so, where the entire group went after and killed one of themselves. Though this seems to be extreme brutality, and would be thought as such if it occured with humans, it was simply due to their need to survive. Obviously that one did something which caused the others to all feel in danger.

This is animals. Humans are able to think about this idea in a different context. It is not, we must kill this person so they don't hurt us. It is rather, we must put this person in jail for the rest of their life so that they don't further hurt us. And really now, is that so different? Living a life of hell, vs. being dead? It's not like they could choose to be killed instead of jailed.

I'm not totally sure if that is pertinent but it's interesting to think about.

I feel like there is much validity in sacrificing for others, please don't misunderstand me there. I simply do not want to work towards bettering, and sarifice things, for the united states. I would rather work to help the 90% of the rest of the world living completely differently than us. The 90% stricken by poverty, hunger, lack of hospitals, schools, etc.

These people seem like they would be much more effective to help, because they need it so much more than the american government.

Though our government is causing some of what is happening, these actions cannot be stopped by me, right now. Therefore I must suffice with aspiring to make a difference in areas other than the states, helping people who perhaps the united states has caused to be where they are. I would feel much better putting my efforts towards that, a situation in which I could actually make a difference, than to work towards something which, for right now, seems unchangable.

[rawb]

all i got was some jane goodall shit and then 'sup im quitting' again.

[Cdn_Brdr]

HI, MY NAME IS ASHES. I'M A LONG WINDED, BULLHEADED AMERICAN. I TAKE A THOUSAND WORDS TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING THAT COULD BE SAID IN FOUR. I THEN REPOST THE SAME GARBAGE FIFTY TIMES OVER.

[dapimpstress]

I was under the impression this thread was for discussing the issue. If that's not what you are interested in, I don't know why you continue to be here.

[edit]I was simply trying to state my points, I'm sorry if I'm not as consice as you'd like, sometimes it takes a few to work concepts in your head, into text. Way to be assholes about it. [/edit]

[Cdn_Brdr]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I was under the impression this thread was for discussing the issue. If that's not what you are interested in, I don't know why you continue to be here.

Mostly just because I enjoy riding your yankee ass.....