How much are you worth per hour?

[Alex]

No, I didn't find helping people with disabilities rewarding, at all. It felt pointless. It was repetitive, and in the end, after months of hard work, the 'success' would be if our agency could find an entry level job for one of our clients, and assist them in keeping it; which they usually didn't.

I do, however, feel VERY rewarded helping talented individuals who have goals and aspirations, and who I feel can be moulded into great successes. In fact, one of the young individuals I have under my employment makes on average 2500 a week. he's 17 years old. He'll probably have a 50% or more down payment on a house by his 9th birthday, and if he chooses to go to school he'll have everything paid for- by himself. Another young guy who worked for me just bought his first apartment. He finished school(35grand...) with out student loans because he was intelligent and has a great work ethic. He saved up a 15% down payment on his new condo in 8 months after graduating. Helping those with the potential to win in life is what gives me satisfaction.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

So if it their fault or a mistake they made in life.... does that mean we as a society have no business helping them to get out of their problem? Or do you think we should leave them be?


BTW what psycoligic/social education do you have to say what illness is legit or not? And how would you have any idea of what it is like to deal with "emotional issues" or drug habbits?

Helping them in what way? Buying them food? giving hand outs to support drug habits? That perpetuates the problem.

Now on the other hand a program I think would be beneficial, is one that would maybe provide temporary shelter from the government as well as donated clothes, and a job arranged. That way if the homeless individual ACTUALLY intends to help their own situation, the government could help them get cleaned up and in decent clothes, temporarily pay for shelter, and provide long term cheap rent on the condition they are working at the job provided them. Stipulations that if they were fired, didn't show up at work, etc, the free ride is over. I'd donate or agree to a tax if the money was spent in that way.


As for your accusation of me not knowing what it is to deal with emotional issues and drug habits, you don't know me. You don't know my family and friends, so please don't make assumptions.

alex, i am starting to think you need perspective.....

remember when your gf needed help, and help was provided to her?! some could say that she didnt deserve that help. that the situation could have been avoided had she made different choices. but instead of asking how she was allowed to get there, help was provided, no judgement made.

everyone deserves help, doesnt matter how they got to where they are. whether it was their fault or not. this is the beauty of living where we do. while the programs may not be delivered in the best way, they are still in place for a reason....

Originally Posted by Alex

Helping them in what way? Buying them food? giving hand outs to support drug habits? That perpetuates the problem.

Now on the other hand a program I think would be beneficial, is one that would maybe provide temporary shelter from the government as well as donated clothes, and a job arranged. That way if the homeless individual ACTUALLY intends to help their own situation, the government could help them get cleaned up and in decent clothes, temporarily pay for shelter, and provide long term cheap rent on the condition they are working at the job provided them. Stipulations that if they were fired, didn't show up at work, etc, the free ride is over. I'd donate or agree to a tax if the money was spent in that way.


As for your accusation of me not knowing what it is to deal with emotional issues and drug habits, you don't know me. You don't know my family and friends, so please don't make assumptions.

I would of thought you could try and help inspire ppl after your whole experince of being poor and making it in life. No I dont know you, but im trying to figure out where your ignorant view of the unfortunate comes from. Than again maybe I should practice what I preach and try to understand that some ppl like you, just dont care about our society as a whole. Good point Robyn.

[Alex]

Avana, I refer you to my above post.

Judgment's are always made, regardless of the outcome and ones actions after. Choices are made, and lessons are learned. Yes, my girlfriend drank far too much. She made a bad choice, she tried to keep up to the amount I was drinking. She learned from it, and doesn't attempt that anymore. If the lesson she had learned from that encounter was 'I can act however I want and someone will take care of me' and continued repeating that mistake, I would be opposed to having her helped. Exactly like the homeless. If they want to work and get back on their feet, and contribute to society, I'd be all for a program I described in my previous post. However, if they don't, and want to simply scrape together an existence off the pity of others, I think they deserve no help.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

I would of thought you could try and help inspire ppl after your whole experince of being poor and making it in life. No I dont know you, but im trying to figure out where your ignorant view of the unfortunate comes from. Than again maybe I should practice what I preach and try to understand that some ppl like you, just dont care about our society as a whole. Good point Robyn.

I do try and inspire people. that's what I do for a living. I try and inspire people with potential to be winners, which I feel rewarded for. I found no reward in my previous line of work, because their were little to no results.

Please don't use the word ignorant. Also if you're talking about the big picture being 'society as a whole' helping those who are going to achieve in life, and contribute to society, is far more beneficial than helping those who chances are will need government support for their entire lives. If you haven't even realized a simple concept like that, you are the ignorant one.

Originally Posted by Alex

Avana, I refer you to my above post.

Judgment's are always made, regardless of the outcome and ones actions after. Choices are made, and lessons are learned. Yes, my girlfriend drank far too much. She made a bad choice, she tried to keep up to the amount I was drinking. She learned from it, and doesn't attempt that anymore. If the lesson she had learned from that encounter was 'I can act however I want and someone will take care of me' and continued repeating that mistake, I would be opposed to having her helped. Exactly like the homeless. If they want to work and get back on their feet, and contribute to society, I'd be all for a program I described in my previous post. However, if they don't, and want to simply scrape together an existence off the pity of others, I think they deserve no help.

is it easier to pigeon hole the homeless like this so that you dont feel bad for being an ass?

[diva]

Ok, so this Alex guy clearly lacks perspective and understanding. Let's forget about that and focus on the face that he bought a gross, $20 chachi shirt from the Men's Warehouse and is probably wearing that ugly hat on his head because he used up all his hair gel that morning.

I think that's A LOT more important guys.

[decypher]

and let's not forget he's clubzone affiliated.

[veN]

As tacky as it was, this thread was a lot better before it filled up with a lot of "This message is hidden because Alex is on your ignore list." I can deduce from everyone who quoted him that he is spouting ignorant and holier than though bullshit from his soap box again.

Can we get back to the point..?

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Alex

Also if you're talking about the big picture being 'society as a whole' helping those who are going to achieve in life, and contribute to society, is far more beneficial than helping those who chances are will need government support for their entire lives.

this is the mentality that keep the poor poor and the rich richer. it is also the mentality that leads to eugenics. basically your world philosophy is what's wrong with the world right now.

Sorry Nev, but we cant go into sub reply's like the lx days.

Originally Posted by Alex

I do try and inspire people. that's what I do for a living. I try and inspire people with potential to be winners, which I feel rewarded for. I found no reward in my previous line of work, because their were little to no results.

Please don't use the word ignorant. Also if you're talking about the big picture being 'society as a whole' helping those who are going to achieve in life, and contribute to society, is far more beneficial than helping those who chances are will need government support for their entire lives. If you haven't even realized a simple concept like that, you are the ignorant one.

I will use the word ignorant, because you are only focusing on potential "winners" and forgetting about everyone else. I can totally relate to your frustration if I compare it to coaching my gymnastics team. I too have amazing athletes who have far more potential than those who are challenged with disabilities and emotional issues. However I make sure to spread my effort evenly. Believe it or not, but my greatest success was helping the less-athletically potential athletes. No they arnt in the highest levels or did they get to stand on the podium, but they did improve and did something others doubted. People dont have to make leaps and bounds to be successful, getting them one step up to ladder can make a bigger difference than you think.

[Senior]

the funny part is that despite all this talk about "big picture" I doubt you have anything more to base these statements on than a bunch of anecdotes. have you ever done any meaningful research on issues around poverty or substance abuse?

Originally Posted by Alex

I do try and inspire people. that's what I do for a living. I try and inspire people with potential to be winners, which I feel rewarded for. I found no reward in my previous line of work, because their were little to no results.

Please don't use the word ignorant. Also if you're talking about the big picture being 'society as a whole' helping those who are going to achieve in life, and contribute to society, is far more beneficial than helping those who chances are will need government support for their entire lives. If you haven't even realized a simple concept like that, you are the ignorant one.

[OsmosisJones]

Originally Posted by Alex

Helping them in what way? Buying them food? giving hand outs to support drug habits? That perpetuates the problem.

Now on the other hand a program I think would be beneficial, is one that would maybe provide temporary shelter from the government as well as donated clothes, and a job arranged. That way if the homeless individual ACTUALLY intends to help their own situation, the government could help them get cleaned up and in decent clothes, temporarily pay for shelter, and provide long term cheap rent on the condition they are working at the job provided them. Stipulations that if they were fired, didn't show up at work, etc, the free ride is over. I'd donate or agree to a tax if the money was spent in that way.


As for your accusation of me not knowing what it is to deal with emotional issues and drug habits, you don't know me. You don't know my family and friends, so please don't make assumptions.

I don't agree with most of your social Darwinist theories, but that program sounds like a good idea. Give credit where it's due.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Senior

the funny part is that despite all this talk about "big picture" I doubt you have anything more to base these statements on than a bunch of anecdotes. have you ever done any meaningful research on issues around poverty or substance abuse?

Yeah, actually. I have.

I don't have references, but when welfare was first instituted (I'm talking turn-of-the-century) there were studies that found that the average quality of life of places that had welfare instituted for the poor was much higher than places where it was not.

Sweeping a problem under the rug does not fix it. Telling people to "Just say no" and "go get a job" does not fix it. Helping those without the ability, resources or motivation to help themselves does. Does it encourage laziness? Hell no, because I can't think of a single person I know that wants to be on welfare. Just a bunch of people that are pissy because they have to pay taxes to it. Well deal, that's how society works. Those who are more fortunate or determined end up picking up the slack for those who are not.

I'm not saying it's right or perfect, I'm saying it's the way it is.

[Senior]

maybe you didn't notice that I was quoting Alex?

Originally Posted by ebbomega

Yeah, actually. I have.

I don't have references, but when welfare was first instituted (I'm talking turn-of-the-century) there were studies that found that the average quality of life of places that had welfare instituted for the poor was much higher than places where it was not.

Sweeping a problem under the rug does not fix it. Telling people to "Just say no" and "go get a job" does not fix it. Helping those without the ability, resources or motivation to help themselves does. Does it encourage laziness? Hell no, because I can't think of a single person I know that wants to be on welfare. Just a bunch of people that are pissy because they have to pay taxes to it. Well deal, that's how society works. Those who are more fortunate or determined end up picking up the slack for those who are not.

I'm not saying it's right or perfect, I'm saying it's the way it is.

[ebbomega]

Originally Posted by Senior

maybe you didn't notice that I was quoting Alex?

Sorry, thought the "You" was in a general sense.

But my point still stands.

[P.A.R.T.Y]

$30-40+ an hour is ideal, $15-25 is liveable, and minimum wage to $14 is poverty. I'd prefer to wheel and deal making $150 in 2 minutes.

[OsmosisJones]

Trudat. Even if a persons life is completely fucked because of their own laziness, it is still better to support them, because otherwise they would be out robbing us and breaking into our houses to support themselves. Cheaper to support someone on welfare than to deal with those problem, or pay for their incarceration. The only other option would be to say "hold down a job, or the RCMP taser you to the next world", and I doubt even Alex would go that far.

On the other hand, welfare can make people lazy. I lived in Norway for awhile, and I had a friend who would not get a job unless it was well paid because the welfare is so ridiculously high (about $4000 a month for a single guy).

[kir mokum]

Originally Posted by Alex

I do, however, feel VERY rewarded helping talented individuals who have goals and aspirations, and who I feel can be moulded into great successes. blah blah blah

so basically you ride other people's coat tails?

[Revolver]

looks like everyone lost alot of money on time spent on this thread.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by kir mokum

so basically you ride other people's coat tails?

What? Ride their coat tails? Uhhh, I'm the one training them to do what they do. I'm their teacher. I choose to teach those who want to learn, and have aspirations. I teach my skills to naturals, and to some who are slow learners, but I have 1 rule; attitude and desire. If someone has that, regardless if they aren't the brightest person in the world, I can help them be successful. I've fired a lot of very smart people who could have been really successful at what I do, simply because they didn't have the desire.

[kir mokum]

so you help people that don't need help?

[Alex]

Are you mentally disabled? I teach a skill. A very valuable skill. Very few people on this planet are self taught.

[Grapes]

Originally Posted by Alex

Are you mentally disabled? I teach a skill. A very valuable skill.

Can't you just tell us what you do?

Or did you already say somewhere in this thread that I'm too lazy to re-read?

It's not illegal is it??