DJ's who think its ok to continue playing for free

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by Skyles

I also have a strong feeling about keeping this kind of conversation off public boards, and party/club goers eyes. Talk amongst the industry professionals if you want advice or help, this kind of banter has no home on here. Seriously, it's a respect thing.. just like not comparing or telling other promoters what you get paid for certain gigs. It's just proper business ethics.

that opinion regarding 'keeping this conversation off public boards' is what keeps anything from changing. the only way to get sketchy promoters in town to step up and do the right thing (ie, pay what is agreed and not shortchange ria by $25 and even try to make her sign for it) is to post it online. otherwise this same shit that has been happening for the last few years will keep happening.

[mugsy]

alright so admittedly, i stopped reading at the 6th page, so i dont know if my point has been made or is fully relative but here it comes anyways.

i think as any type of artist in vancouver, you get screwed. as a painter in order to get a show at most places firstly you have to make the show of paintings - cost could vary from $200 - $1000 to more depending on the peices, then you apply for the show and pay a jury fee just so someone looks at your work depending on the gallery ive seen the jury fee be from $25 - $100, then if you get the show the gallery usually takes 30% + for commission. wonder why artwork is so expensive in most galleries? work out the money factors, add on the artists time and the fact that they are doing what they love\putting their heart and soul and sweat into these peices and the prices sky rocket.

i compare this to dj's. dating one and at first blindyly thinking "how the fuck can he spend over $2000 on records a month?... why does he need another turntable?... wasnt the first mixer good enough?...." but then i realized\saw the passion and love and witnessed him making people dance and smile and have fucking great times and memories and knew he couldnt help but spend the money. its what he loved to do, and he deserved to get paid for doing what he loved.

why? because they are making something that is consumed. you may not be able to touch it, but you sure as hell can feel it and hear it and see it. its taken me a long time to realize as a painter that i really shouldnt give any work away anymore\should make more profit. yes, im doing what i love and enjoy, but it costs me sometimes an arm and a leg to produce it. yes dj's are doing what they love - music pumps through their veins, but that shouldnt devaluize their worth.

money\not getting paid is one of the reasons my lovely boyfriend slowed down on the dj department - and i know im biased but im positive most who heard him knew he had something amazing going on. it just wasnt affordable to do. i realize more then most people that passion is something that you sometimes get dragged through - ive gone to the art store and spent a whole paycheque only afterwards realizing that i had bills that would now have to wait another 2 weeks to be paid.... aside from the bills of records and equipment how about the hours spent practising and learning, watching and more practicisin? shouldnt artists\dj's be rewarded for this in some way?

vancouver may seem very accepting to the arts and to new music, but i personally think this part of vancouver is dying. i've seen it kill a bit of my brother for a month or two - after massive success in halifax and japan he moved back here and couldnt get a show if his life depended on it. once your inside the "scene" its never as sweet as it seemed.

talent should be paid for. dj's are performers and artists, they spend years practising and working on skills, they spend thousands of dollars on equipment, they work crowds, make parties\clubnights go thye deserve to be paid. yes they are doing what they love, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt get paid for it. alot of teachers teach out of passion, should we not pay them because they are doing what they love?

[thechix0r]

Originally Posted by vanilla

I find it funny when the name of Attila is posted, all the 30-40 people who has been bashing him for years on this board, jump right in and blow it out of proportion.

Nice to know FnK is still a place of highschool drama, and all these people (even tho well into their adult years) are still under the high school mentality.

Some facts

1) Evolve always has paid their DJs.
2) Rhia got paid accordingly to skill level ($75-100 dollars from what ive heard)

2a) Rhia feels she deserves to be paid more (after the fact), simply because PINK was a fun party that did well. -- and that's normal, everyone thinks they are the best and deserve the most, yet many of us work for 8/hour.. like me, lol anyway...

RHIA, you have nice track selection, but hun please learn how to beat match expecially if you think you are DJing for a career. Because if you demand to get paid big bucks, you at least have to know how to work it proper :)

... THAT IS ALL!

~Pam~

Really, I find it funny, that the sister of Attila comes on here saying that people bash Attila and blow things out of proportion, and then has the nerve to do the exact same thing by saying that Rhia needs to upgrade her skills just to be paid the minimun that a DJ gets in an hour, even though from what I hear she's been at it a long time.

[thechix0r]

Originally Posted by mugsy

vancouver may seem very accepting to the arts and to new music, but i personally think this part of vancouver is dying. i've seen it kill a bit of my brother for a month or two - after massive success in halifax and japan he moved back here and couldnt get a show if his life depended on it. once your inside the "scene" its never as sweet as it seemed.

talent should be paid for. dj's are performers and artists, they spend years practising and working on skills, they spend thousands of dollars on equipment, they work crowds, make parties\clubnights go thye deserve to be paid. yes they are doing what they love, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt get paid for it. alot of teachers teach out of passion, should we not pay them because they are doing what they love?

Took the words right out of my mouth about Vancouver. Although we aspire to be accepting of the arts, it's still difficult to make any sort of living doing anything with the arts, this much I know. I fully understand what you're saying and agree with you. Your work should be paid for.

[angst]

Originally Posted by mojo

and how about how the MC announced Stanton as the headliner, with Tipper standing by? thats just plain disrespect.

Umm, what are you talking about. The MC didn't even go on until Dom's set was nearly done and Tipper had long left the venue. Plus, that's what you do as an MC, you hype the dude performing. But I digress.....

As far as pay for Djs in this city, it fucking sucks. This is the 1st place I've been to where promoters make serious serious coin off of doing these parties and either pay the locals poorly, not at all or try and be shady by not paying the agreed upon amount. It's bullshit and no one seems to address these issues. Promoters know they can get away with it and so they take advantage, especially since there's up-in-comers who will play for free. The problem with that is the line-up suffers b/c good Djs have to be compensated. If I'm paying these ridiculously high ticket prices, I wanna see the best locals, not some hacks that'll play for free or just started spinning. As a promoter, telling DJs you can't pay em b/c you're losing money is completely unacceptable. If the party bombs then the only one who should be taking a hit is the promoter.

I've been spinning for over 10 years, played all over north america, opened up for some of the biggest jungle Djs out there and I don't really get booked here because I will not play for $50, which seems to be the going rate. I can't fully blame the promoters though because it's the established DJs who have driven the rates down as well by playing for peanuts. When I've told promoters how much I charge, I've been told on numerous occassions well (insert established DJ name here) will play for $50.

Bottom line is that many promoters here are in this strictly for the money and will cut corners at every turn b/c they know they can and that the party people don't really give a shit who they book b/c they're going to the big rave regardless of the line-up.

[Richard_Pyra]

Originally Posted by AGROculture

So let me get this straight

Attila doesn't pay his locals?
and he charges those outrageous prices and makes a ton of cash?

Not to cool.

I've had a long enough relationship where I lose money or maybe only break even I don't need to pay them. Not because I demand it, it's because they agree with me up front.

Some of the best dj's in town will agree with me to do that, while they wouldn't for a rookie promoter. Because they know I'm straight up with them.

However when I throw a party where we make a ton of cash, the dj's have gotten big bonuses. Sometimes double their pay.
So it evens out.

This is why they continue to play for me year after year

There's a difference between greed and honesty though.
I guess this is the reason the local line up on those parties are all newbies.

It's cool to give newbies a chance, but not cause they're free.

People need to see why these $100 dj's from Alberta are getting booked, and why these free locals are getting booked.

Not trying to pick on anyone here, cause the same goes for a lot of promoters. It just seems like a lot of promoters are looking for the quick buck rather than quality. And not understanding that quality is what brings the people over the long run.

Originally Posted by AGROculture

^Well whether you make or break shouldn't be an issue unless it's agreed upon beforehand.
Or if you have a lasting relationship where dj and promoter understand eachothers situations

What about designers?
http://www.fnk.ca/board/showthread.php?t=93566

[mojo]

Originally Posted by angst

Umm, what are you talking about. The MC didn't even go on until Dom's set was nearly done and Tipper had long left the venue. Plus, that's what you do as an MC, you hype the dude performing. But I digress.....

.

i wasn't referring to the MC that was spouting rhymes during the last hour or so, i meant whoever introduced Dom from SW. I was under the impression that was the MC as well.

[PwInCeSs]

Originally Posted by vanilla

I find it funny when the name of Attila is posted, all the 30-40 people who has been bashing him for years on this board, jump right in and blow it out of proportion.

Nice to know FnK is still a place of highschool drama, and all these people (even tho well into their adult years) are still under the high school mentality.

Some facts

1) Evolve always has paid their DJs.
2) Rhia got paid accordingly to skill level ($75-100 dollars from what ive heard)

2a) Rhia feels she deserves to be paid more (after the fact), simply because PINK was a fun party that did well. -- and that's normal, everyone thinks they are the best and deserve the most, yet many of us work for 8/hour.. like me, lol anyway...

RHIA, you have nice track selection, but hun please learn how to beat match expecially if you think you are DJing for a career. Because if you demand to get paid big bucks, you at least have to know how to work it proper :)

... THAT IS ALL!

~Pam~

Ummmm
First of all yes she even said she was expecting 100$ an hour, as you said she deserved... Thats per hour, she was asked to play longer there for should get paid more, and not short changed and having to go back for her money. Thats pretty pathetic th that she was short changed in the first place to the point she went back.

Rhia doesnt do this as a career she may not have posted it in this thread but in a thread that she does have a good job.
And im pretty sure if she couldnt beat match she wouldnt be playing all the places she does, and ive heard her so i kno she can. And if she is as bad as you say then its pretty stupid for your brother to hire her right? Obviously your wrong.

[optimum sound]

Thus why I decided to go latin a little while ago...the girls and the booze, yum yum

Originally Posted by ill-esha

From reading the Clubvibes thread I am coming to the conclusion that I should switch to playing 120 bpm house and DJ at the Red Room. Fuck.

[REV]

I've heard wayyyy too many dj's playing out that shouldn't be
i miss the old days when people didn't play their first gig til 2 years in

[wishbone]

i wonder how much longer this thread's gonna keep up.

[cubed]

Originally Posted by vanilla

1) Evolve always has paid their DJs.

I certainly hope they do with the amount of money they are charging for a bargain basement party.

2) Rhia got paid accordingly to skill level ($75-100 dollars from what ive heard)

actually if you had an IQ larger than a lemming you would have read that she was shorted money even after the fact.

2a) Rhia feels she deserves to be paid more (after the fact), simply because PINK was a fun party that did well. -- and that's normal, everyone thinks they are the best and deserve the most, yet many of us work for 8/hour.. like me, lol anyway...

How much of your money do you spend on supplies for work, excluding gel heels, lip balm and knee pads.

RHIA, you have nice track selection, but hun please learn how to beat match expecially if you think you are DJing for a career. Because if you demand to get paid big bucks, you at least have to know how to work it proper :)

Funny, because I saw her play a flawless set to a packed house in Whistler last night.

PS - They also paid her quite well.

[prozac]

"You must spread some Karma around before giving it to $userinfo[username] again."

jim you were going to get karma for the lemming simile.

i don't remember the last time i gave you karma, apparently i don't give it out often enough.

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by REV

I've heard wayyyy too many dj's playing out that shouldn't be
i miss the old days when people didn't play their first gig til 2 years in

I really have to agree! I didnt expect to play out till at least a year after getting my decks. However I was offered a gig 3 months into it. All I have to say I should not have played. Although I did have lots of ppl dancing
I think after 2 years you finaly understand not only beat matching, mixing, flow of tracks, but how to actualy OPEN for a DJ and not play banging trax at +8 on the pitch.

[SWIFTBEATS]

i've been offered 3 gigs and ive never spun a record in my life

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by AGROculture

So let me get this straight

Attila doesn't pay his locals?
and he charges those outrageous prices and makes a ton of cash?

Not to cool.

I've had a long enough relationship where I lose money or maybe only break even I don't need to pay them. Not because I demand it, it's because they agree with me up front.

Some of the best dj's in town will agree with me to do that, while they wouldn't for a rookie promoter. Because they know I'm straight up with them.

However when I throw a party where we make a ton of cash, the dj's have gotten big bonuses. Sometimes double their pay.
So it evens out.

This is why they continue to play for me year after year

There's a difference between greed and honesty though.
I guess this is the reason the local line up on those parties are all newbies.

It's cool to give newbies a chance, but not cause they're free.

People need to see why these $100 dj's from Alberta are getting booked, and why these free locals are getting booked.

Not trying to pick on anyone here, cause the same goes for a lot of promoters. It just seems like a lot of promoters are looking for the quick buck rather than quality. And not understanding that quality is what brings the people over the long run.

In some ways I agree with Wood that DJ's should be paid regardless.

However Promoters and DJ's do need to work together to keep this industry alive. No promoters = No DJ's and vice versa.

Ive watched many respectable promoters who truly promote for the right reasons. It breaks my heart to watch them try to bring in new talent or try somthing new and watch them loose it down the drain. It really doesnt hurt me at all to play for free for a promoter who didnt make it that night... they usualy make it up by booking you again or giving you g-list ;)

[Senior]

Originally Posted by SWIFTBEATS

i've been offered 3 gigs and ive never spun a record in my life

I used to have promoters try and book me once a month, seriously it was way to funny.

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by vanilla

I find it funny when the name of Attila is posted, all the 30-40 people who has been bashing him for years on this board, jump right in and blow it out of proportion.

Nice to know FnK is still a place of highschool drama, and all these people (even tho well into their adult years) are still under the high school mentality.

I find it funny when I thought of giving Atilla a chance agaisnt his "reputation"... TWICE!?! I was proven wrong.

Originally Posted by vanilla

Some facts

1) Evolve always has paid their DJs.
2) Rhia got paid accordingly to skill level ($75-100 dollars from what ive heard)

2a) Rhia feels she deserves to be paid more (after the fact), simply because PINK was a fun party that did well. -- and that's normal, everyone thinks they are the best and deserve the most, yet many of us work for 8/hour.. like me, lol anyway...

RHIA, you have nice track selection, but hun please learn how to beat match expecially if you think you are DJing for a career. Because if you demand to get paid big bucks, you at least have to know how to work it proper :)

... THAT IS ALL!

~Pam~

I dont think you have your facts straight.

1) I know of DJ's who have not been paid or paid in g-list *rolls eyes* OR You pay most your DJ's penuts.

2) How was I paid on skill level when I was paid $50 to play for 45 minutes a year ago at Sinful... and paid $75 for 90 min a year later at Pink? If you go back to the 1st post I bolded what Jay tripwire said "an aspiring DJ should be paid 100/hr."

2a) Some think that I was asking for more money because the party did well and thnking I should get a cut or somthing. NO, I am simply asking to be paid for what I am worth.
Most places I play I am doing an opening spot or playing at a party that did not do well... I therefore wont complain or ask for the full $100 hr/. However when I see ppl at the door being charged more then double what im being paid for in a semi headline spot... THATS OUTRAGOUSE. The promoter could obviously affored to pay aspireing DJ's 100/hr and didnt. Thats my problem.

As for your beat matching comment... I hardly remember seeing you hanging around my sets recently to make a judging coment like that. As for Pink the sound in that room was some of the worst ive played on. It literaly sounded like metal mud. I dont know how you could expect anyone to play properly on the sound in that room.

[Senior]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

In some ways I agree with Wood that DJ's should be paid regardless.

However Promoters and DJ's do need to work together to keep this industry alive. No promoters = No DJ's and vice versa.

Ive watched many respectable promoters who truly promote for the right reasons. It breaks my heart to watch them try to bring in new talent or try somthing new and watch them loose it down the drain. It really doesnt hurt me at all to play for free for a promoter who didnt make it that night... they usualy make it up by booking you again or giving you g-list ;)

That's a very good point.

[BongMan]

I've given out some Karma to some very deserving posts today


I have only one comment for now, stupidity must run in Attila's family or somthing...

[cinist]

id be willing to bet that WAS attila

[BongMan]

To tell ya the truth I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

[wishbone]

i dunno, watching european cut her down was a highlight a page back.

[BongMan]

hahaha ya if I could give double karma she would be getting it

[euro_raver]

this thread is retarded, it keeps going in circles...
doesnt this site have moderators?
it should've been locked a long time ago..