DJ's who think its ok to continue playing for free

[dj Spinz]

Originally Posted by optimum sound

Simply because I spent sometime in South America recently and people fighting over shit like this quite frankly disgusts me.
Everyone is right and everyone is wrong, everyone needs a reality check once in awhile but most of us living in this western culture will go through life arguing about peanuts.
know what I mean Jay?

Its also not that cool to assume you know what people are thinking because you've visited somewhere else. I'm from South America and actually people from SA discuss, debate and worry about music as much or more than anywhere. They might live in a country in turmoil and the first thing they think about is which tape they are gonna stick in the player when they wake up. South America has a huge music/party scene and massive festivals every year, damn right its important there.

But you are correct in one thing everyone is right and everyone is wrong. Our brains somehow became infinitely more advanced than most animals and with that came the ability to think about opinions. And now much of our lives is spent arguing about stuff that some people think is unimportant. I guess that's just their opinion ;)

[dj Spinz]

Originally Posted by Chewy

true dat^^,, i think many of us need to mature and take a look at our situation in life. Is it time to move on to the next big thing? As time progresses and new generations take form, we need to advance to the next stage in life, there are bigger and better things than parties and how much you get paid to dj. Our society doesnt need dj's, if there is ever a economic depression things like djing, shopping and other shit you do for fun will become obsolete.Take a look at your situation and ask yourself if your being mature. There are alot of people in this thread that continue to argue for the sake of trying to come out on top. I see many of you contradict yourselves at the same time. Most of you have proven your point, and alot of it makes sense, but give it up and move on.

Our society also doesn't need toilet paper, make up or cool shoes and in an economic depression these things just may dissappear as well. Doesn't make it obselete just difficult. Sure in times of war and economic despair these frivolous things such as music go to hell, but that doesn't mean they aren't important. The first thing people try to do in war torn countries is try to figure out how to entertain themselves. People hold concerts, parties poetry readings etc even when they know they may get the shit bombed out of them.

I'd say music is one of the most important things in the world and it has the power to unify and separate all at the same time. DJing is the type of music that people like right now and its been around for half a century in one form or the other so its not going away. Music (along with opinion as stated in my last post) is probably the main thing that makes us human, and most people need some sort of rhythmic beat in their day at some point just to make it through regardless of what type of music makes that person happy. The real maturity doesn't come from trying to move onto the next stage of your life, it comes from realizing that entertainment is a necessity in life from when you're born to the day you die and where ever you are at is fine, no need to rush out of it if that's what you like.

I know this has not much to do with this thread just that it touches on that many people in this thread say if you love djing you should do it for free. I say screw that, I love music and know that music and design are the two things that I'm good at and I thank god that I can do them as "work" because the idea of working some crap 9-5 job my whole life makes me want to stab myself. I LOVE MUSIC and DJing and I also "LOVE" paying the rent and having food to eat and paying the bills ... so if I can do something i love to make a living its wicked. People who have the will and motivation to turn what they love into their job should do it, its way more rewarding than just going to rock a crowd and then having to get up the next day to go to a job you hate.

[Cdn_Brdr]

Hey optimum.... I agree with you to a certain extent in the respect that yeah there are far worse things in the world but..... I think the bottom line is that business is business.

If I was an electrician and I told a client that it would be $100 an hour for my services and worked for an hour and a half installing lighting in his home I would expect $150. How is this any different here?

Just because it happens at a rave doesn't make it any less valid... that's the big problem here as people have the 'you should expect it in the rave scene' mentality. Why? Bottom line is that the DJ is your service and the promoter is the client who hired them..... BUSINESS IS BUSINESS... pay them what was agreed on or shut up.

When it comes to the promoter 'losing money'.... tough shit. My Dad runs his own construction business. If a client stiffs my Dad (ie: the same as a promoter 'losing money') he pays his employees their wages before he pays himself. It's not the employees fault that my Dad didn't get as much money as he thought he would. What would you do if your boss told you 'Hey, I'm a little short this week.... how does $12 an hour sound instead of $14?' You'd tell him to take a flying fuck am I right?

[Chewy]

Leafs suck

[oddmud]

have i really been out of the local scene that long? people i've never heard of talking like they've been doing this for ever. ;) i'm still a rookie and I've been in the scene for 8 years now. people stop thinking you're so important.

[PH1.ca]

Originally Posted by influenza

have i really been out of the local scene that long? people i've never heard of talking like they've been doing this for ever. ;) i'm still a rookie and I've been in the scene for 8 years now. people stop thinking you're so important.

J-Mudd, drop down to Tokyo tonight with the gnu, I have you on the list and cheapies. I have a few drinks with your names on them. We can chat about how we are so new-school

[dj Spinz]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Leafs suck

Touché!!

[kiMMie]

I'm too impatient on a Saturday morning to read all 20 pages of discussion, but my suggestion for any upcoming DJ is to get yourself a representative with all the correct paperwork and get yourself a contract signed by the promoter to ensure the proper payment, travel costs, accomodations, etc. prior to playing a set.

Technically, it is somewhat a business transaction if you consider DJ'ing a part of your career.

If you don't have anything on paper or anything concrete for that matter, anyone can negotiate half way through one's set and give you half of what was originally agreed upon.

As tedious as it may sound, I think it's the best way to cover your ass. It's worked for DJ's I've represented to date. :)

[MC Hammered]

Originally Posted by kiMMie

I'm too impatient on a Saturday morning to read all 20 pages of discussion, but my suggestion for any upcoming DJ is to get yourself a representative with all the correct paperwork and get yourself a contract signed by the promoter to ensure the proper payment, travel costs, accomodations, etc. prior to playing a set.

Technically, it is somewhat a business transaction if you consider DJ'ing a part of your career.

If you don't have anything on paper or anything concrete for that matter, anyone can negotiate half way through one's set and give you half of what was originally agreed upon.

As tedious as it may sound, I think it's the best way to cover your ass. It's worked for DJ's I've represented to date. :)

Or get hired to spin by BLUE! :c-tard:

[kiMMie]

Correcto mundo. Stiffing DJ's was a big no no for us @ BLUE. Pay the staff, and take the loss. Builds credibility for the promoters.

[Toxxin Ephekt]

Originally Posted by dabbler

utter bullshit, tons of people with talent never get recognized.

Sad but true...

[Wood]

^lol, trust me wayne, your talent for tooting your own horn goes un-recognized by NO ONE... :329:

well, at 20 pages, at least this thread has stayed more civilized & on topic than the parallel thread on clubvibes.... man, that one is embarassing

btw on the topic of contracts... definitely a good idea, but for a local it should not be considered absolute protection against getting stiffed. The promoter knows as well as you do that you're not going to court over a couple hundred dollars, so if they wanna stiff you chances are a contract will not stop them. just be choosy about who you play for, and don't give your continued support to promoters who stiff.

[Séguin]

The DJ to Raver ratio now is something stupid like 6:1. Almost everyone you meet at a party or on a board like this is a DJ (or Producer... whatever).
Its become a cut-throat industry that everyone who goes to a rave wants a piece of.

Thats why I gave up, its not woth the hastle of promoting yourself just to get an opening slot... or in my case, having to travel to play all the time because my genre isn't appreciated here. It doesn't pay enough to keep going.

If anything, more people should just give up and move on. Its a bold thing to say, but theres enough of the mediocre at best local DJ types out there who sound the same as the next guy in line

[Tayfoon]

Getting an agent for local matters has no point

And normal agents wont take you unless you are an established name already making a bit more then 100$ an hour ;)

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Robb Peppertre

If anything, more people should just give up and move on. Its a bold thing to say, but theres enough of the mediocre at best local DJ types out there who sound the same as the next guy in line

they don't hafta give it up necessarily, it would just be nice if people could get into it as a hobby & not feel like they have to work at being the next superstar. DJing is fun, it's great passtime for music enthusiasts, and it would be nice if more people (especially those who've been at it for under 2 yrs) would be happy just to do it at home & not feel the need to horn in on the paying gigs that experienced, career DJs rely on.

[Séguin]

Originally Posted by Wood

they don't hafta give it up necessarily, it would just be nice if people could get into it as a hobby & not feel like they have to work at being the next superstar. DJing is fun, it's great passtime for music enthusiasts, and it would be nice if more people (especially those who've been at it for under 2 yrs) would be happy just to do it at home & not feel the need to horn in on the paying gigs that experienced, career DJs rely on.

Thats what I'm doing. Just playing in my house from now on. I have one more gig but after that I'm done... Except I've been playing for more than 2 years.

[Wood]

^well that's too bad, i'm sure there's lots better candidates for 'stepping down' than yourself... but i hear ya, when doing something you love becomes a source of stress, it's a good time to take a step back & re-evaluate.

[Séguin]

That's what I've done. For me, its more hastle than it's worth. And I've found something else to put a full time passion into.
I'll still always like mixing records, and still produce things because its fun though.

[Jizzy Kizzy]

^ hey rob aren't those your boots on my feet? or was it my boots on your feet?

lol

[Séguin]

haha, the never ending boot saga!

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by Wood

they don't hafta give it up necessarily, it would just be nice if people could get into it as a hobby & not feel like they have to work at being the next superstar. DJing is fun, it's great passtime for music enthusiasts, and it would be nice if more people (especially those who've been at it for under 2 yrs) would be happy just to do it at home & not feel the need to horn in on the paying gigs that experienced, career DJs rely on.

as much as i agree with you, i think its tricky to draw any sort of lines, because in all reality, im sure there's guys that have been playing for waay longer than two years, but have no real interest entertaining anymore. they are there for the paycheck- and id rather watch an enthusiastic newb than a bitter old fart.

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by Cheez

and id rather watch an enthusiastic newb than a bitter old fart.

boh to that!

[SEAN!]

if you dont like what you're getting paid then dont do it, simple as that.

would you work for free?

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by SEAN!

if you dont like what you're getting paid then dont do it, simple as that.

would you work for free?

Thats the problem its not as simple as that. Why do you think unions start?
Alot of promoters dont want to pay $100 hr/ and will find new DJ's desprete to play for free. Meaning DJ's who ask to get paid risk not getting to play at all, but its so hard becuase we often get sucked in to doing it anyways because we love it.

Or some promoters just dont pay up to what they said they would or dodge to contract/agrement bullet.

[Chewy]

Supply and demand, its as simply as that. to many dj's not enough demand mean lower wages,

deal with it