DJ's who think its ok to continue playing for free

[nabs]

Well im planning on holding a show for FREE this summer sometime. and i still am planning to pay the DJ's. lol.

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by BenGiovanni

the way i see newb vs experienced

Newb:
Plays tracks that have been raped by others (doesnt know what an alias is), beatmatching is a task, cant keep steady with the beatmatching

Experienced:
Mixing and beatmatching is second nature, track selection (new tunes and always upto date with the latest releases and music drama) and reading the crowd. Knowing labels and what genres they cater to releasing.

this turns into the fork in the road..
smart djs will turn to djing to increase their wage, a reason to charge more...

ok yeah totally agree and everything, but who's going to judge that? the promoter? the DJ? before or after the show? its not really that simple, is all im saying. in a dream world, dj's with talent would be paid better and dj's who suck wouldnt play out in the first place. but its really just a matter of opinion, which can result in lots of underpaid/underappreciated dj's.

[BenGiovanni]

its all dependant on what shape the scene is... which in this case is bad
and recently djing turned into a trend... over the past two years of spinning and being one with the new djs... like... 90% of them gave up
now... the newb number has increased threefold

[Richard_Pyra]

Originally Posted by Chewy

alot of dj's just buy records and mix. why should you get paid for that, why should you get paid for taking someone elses work and benefiting from it?

Then why not just play a cd?

This had been said, but aside from the practicing and time spent hunting records, DJs spend a considerable amount on music for other people to listen to.. How one can say it's simply 'benefitting from other people's work' is a little ignorant.

Say you own a retail store.. all you are doing is buying someone else's products, and turning around and selling them at a higher price to turn a profit, whether or not you love the products you're selling. So by your logic, all they are doing is benefitting from someone else's work (the manufacturer). Forget the fact that there's a huge financial risk in keeping your shelves stocked with products that potentially will not get sold, forget that they have to put the time in to actually be there, and forget the fact that they have to know their product inside out to be of any use to anyone. You're right... what scam!


edit: You also might want to try that line out on headliners that come into town... Yeah, a lot of them also produce their own music, but that's not what the promoter is paying them $2000 for (unless of course, they are doing a LIVE set, which we all know happens like 2% of the time).

Seriously, some of you should just whip out your penises and compare sizes already....

I am not all that surprised that a promoter has yet to post in here. Now with the exception of Apex, at all Swingkids shows, local DJ's are all paid $100 per hour. Regardless of how new they are. If they are deserving of a higher rate, it is negotiated in their contract and signed off on prior to the show.

I truely believe that Rhia is more than worth what she had initially expected that night. I have never seen someone who works harder at promoting herself, and her dj-ing than her. She really does set the standard in this city for what you should all aspire to be. And I don't doubt for a second, that she will be seen on international rosters soon enough with the ambition she has.

And to Rhia, weren't you initially paid $50?

[Wood]

When someone is asking you to provide a service to them as part of a commercial enterprise upon which they stand to make money, you should be paid. If the currency you're paid in is exposure & experience, and all is agreed to & understood ahead of time, i see no problem with that. If you are beyond the point of needing exposure or experience, the tender for payment is CASH. And if you're expecting to be paid cash, you better have a written agreement ahead of time, and a deposit doesn't hurt either.

I've learned my lesson time & again about putting my faith in people that i don't trust implicitly - it almost always bites you in the ass. Sad but true. I think a lot of us, myself included, can be afraid to turn down gigs for fear that we'll just get steamrolled out of the scene by the constant influx of 'up & comers' who are more than willing to play for free. But if promoters aren't willing to pay a few dollars for talent & experience, it's the punters who are ultimately getting short changed & if the events don't deliver the goods, they'll go elsewhere.

This issue is far from exclusive to the rave/club scene, i hear this stuff from musicians & performers of all kinds. At the end of the day, i think there's a significant portion of any audience that demands quality performance - significant enough that no event promoter should be able to get over on bottom-dollar entertainers alone. When a promoter makes the decision to book someone like Rhia for example, they are not doing it as a favor to her, they're doing it because they know she's worked hard to establish herself locally and will probably be the deciding factor for a lot of friends & acquaintances who might not have come just for the headliner. In short, they're doing it to improve their bottom line so to ask for her services for free is ludicrous.

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by BongMan

I mean it's not like we the party goer can demand a refund cause the rave was bunk or whatever we are shit out of luck stuck in a over heated hole full of whatever the hell is in rave air and a highly overpriced ticket. But again just my opinion

i've given money back to people who were unsatisfied with the party (only if they had been there less than an hour tho)

Originally Posted by Richard_Pyra

That being said, DJing isn't a competition.

it kind of is, just not a direct competition. any dj that plays a similiar style to you, is competition for bookings. especially if they play for free

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by Wood

When someone is asking you to provide a service to them as part of a commercial enterprise upon which they stand to make money, you should be paid. If the currency you're paid in is exposure & experience, and all is agreed to & understood ahead of time, i see no problem with that. If you are beyond the point of needing exposure or experience, the tender for payment is CASH. And if you're expecting to be paid cash, you better have a written agreement ahead of time, and a deposit doesn't hurt either.

I've learned my lesson time & again about putting my faith in people that i don't trust implicitly - it almost always bites you in the ass. Sad but true. I think a lot of us, myself included, can be afraid to turn down gigs for fear that we'll just get steamrolled out of the scene by the constant influx of 'up & comers' who are more than willing to play for free. But if promoters aren't willing to pay a few dollars for talent & experience, it's the punters who are ultimately getting short changed & if the events don't deliver the goods, they'll go elsewhere.

This issue is far from exclusive to the rave/club scene, i hear this stuff from musicians & performers of all kinds. At the end of the day, i think there's a significant portion of any audience that demands quality performance - significant enough that no event promoter should be able to get over on bottom-dollar entertainers alone. When a promoter makes the decision to book someone like Rhia for example, they are not doing it as a favor to her, they're doing it because they know she's worked hard to establish herself locally and will probably be the deciding factor for a lot of friends & acquaintances who might not have come just for the headliner. In short, they're doing it to improve their bottom line so to ask for her services for free is ludicrous.

VERY well said.

[BenGiovanni]

i second that...
not enough quality anymore... i am still yet to see a line up where all the djs are surreally good.

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by Wood

I think a lot of us, myself included, can be afraid to turn down gigs for fear that we'll just get steamrolled out of the scene by the constant influx of 'up & comers' who are more than willing to play for free.

couldnt have put it better myself. im still relatively new to the scene (been playing out about two years), but i think im past the point where it can be assumed im playing merely for exposure, but what are the promoters who i have played for for free in the past going to say when all of a sudden i ask to be paid?

[dabbler]

@ BenGiovanni oh and if twisted paid you, count yourself as lucky :P

[cubed]

Originally Posted by G3N3R4L

i personally dont equate the two like that

job = work
dj'ing doesnt = work

Tell that to guys like czech and vinyl ritchie who make thier livings doing it.

I'm pretty sure you'd get torn a new asshole before you even finished that comment.

[sNyx]

Originally Posted by dabbler

@ BenGiovanni oh and if twisted paid you, count yourself as lucky :P

Originally Posted by bengiovanni.com

Ben has shown the masses that he is well on his way to become a reputable name in the Canadian Electronica scene.

i bring nothing to the table

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by sNyx™

i bring nothing to the table

hahaha did you write bio that youself, ben?

[BenGiovanni]

Originally Posted by sNyx™

i bring nothing to the table

i dont get it...

Originally Posted by Cheez

hahaha did you write bio that youself, ben?

got a friend to do me a rough one since im no good at it, and i just added a few things here and there... besides that one is outdated.

[cinist]

outdated? what's changed, are you going to throw 'international' in there instead of 'canadian'? lol

[Richard_Pyra]

Originally Posted by Avana

I am not all that surprised that a promoter has yet to post in here.

That hurts, I've been throwing parties for over six years :(

Originally Posted by dabbler

it kind of is, just not a direct competition. any dj that plays a similiar style to you, is competition for bookings. especially if they play for free

In that sense, you're right. I meant that you're not competing with the other DJs at the party to see who gets paid the most, like some sort of DJ game show... I don't know why, but that's just hilarious.

(PS, Myles should delete this whole thread, and replace it with a sticky of what Wood said)

[sNyx]

Originally Posted by Cheez

hahaha did you write bio that youself, ben?

I like "shown the masses" :)

[cinist]

I can't say anything about bigger shows, but if you want every dj getting paid $100 an hour or even $50 an hour than you can kiss underground shows goodbye. it's not even a question of sacrificing profit it's a matter of doubling your loss.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by G3N3R4L

i personally dont equate the two like that

job = work
dj'ing doesnt = work

i'm sure the same is true for a lot of DJs... if you don't work on it then yeah, it ain't work. It so happens that a lot of us do put a serious amount of work into it.

[Bevvy Swift]

Originally Posted by cinist

I can't say anything about bigger shows, but if you want every dj getting paid $100 an hour or even $50 an hour than you can kiss underground shows goodbye. it's not even a question of sacrificing profit it's a matter of doubling your loss.

quoted for truth. i would never ask a promoter for money if they lose money on the party. but any promoter who makes money off thier show and doesnt pay the dj's a cent obviously has some ethics 101 to study.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by cinist

I can't say anything about bigger shows, but if you want every dj getting paid $100 an hour or even $50 an hour than you can kiss underground shows goodbye. it's not even a question of sacrificing profit it's a matter of doubling your loss.

well aren't the kind of shows you're talking about usually more of a communal thing? Everybody helps out, whether it's by DJing or helping with decorations, etc... it's usually all friends working together so they can have some fun & not lose their shirts? That's whole different ballgame than a massive selling $80 tix for one headliner & a bunch of locals who are booked under the false pretense of 'getting some exposure' when they're really there because the promoter knows they'll convince all their friends to buy tickets. right?

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Cheez

i would never ask a promoter for money if they lose money on the party.

i would... if it was their own ineptitude that caused the loss. I'll play for free for friends who are throwing a show that's budgeted to break even. If they're trying to make money, i must be paid whether thay profit or not.

[b0ld]

Basically the way I see things for myself is this. I've invested in equipment and what not for producing.... Why? Because I want to create music.... At this point am I focus'd on making top dollars..... no not really..... however if one day I end up making a few dollars here and there.... cool.... if I don't.... oh well.... At least I am having alot of fun and experimenting all at the same time. Personally I see no loss for myself since its my own little thing that I like to do and thats it. The only thing a DJ can do is play other people's music over and over again. Did they accomplish anything?....probably not....

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by BenGiovanni

bitch and complain, bitch and complain, if you cant beat the system, then a) give up or b) conform... fuck!

ps. Rhia, everyone I spoke to in regards to getting paid at the party... and to be honest I heard allot of complaining... and not just from ONE person on your consistent hassling of "Am I gonna get paid?"

If you set a fee, then dont worry about it. You got paid that set fee didnt you?

Actualy when I found out my set was extended and my time slot was moved from 12-1 (which we agreed on) to 11-12:30 (with out telling me) I called Attila wanting to confirm pay. He told me it wasn't him who was in-charge it was Dennis. Knowing Dennis works with Twisted who pays their DJ's very well... I had no worry. Of corse when It came time to pick up my cheque I said to Dennis "did you know it was a 1.5 hr slot?" He at first was shocked, "really?" and put his hands in the air apologizing, "sorry im not the one in charge of paying DJ's, you'll have to talk to Atilla about that."

And yes Avana... I sighed a sheet for the $75. However when I got home I looked in the envelope and only found $50. Drove right back to the party (Attila still know where to be found) So Dennis with out question took $25 out of his own wallet and gave it to me.

Originally Posted by BenGiovanni

anything you were done a favour by having an extended slot and NOT opening. I wouldnt be complaining. You should be happy that Evolve gave you the chance to play the music you love in a primetime slot.

I closed for Amber D last night at Twisted and I didnt get paid, BOO HOO!... I had a ton of fun just playing the music I wanted to hear on the big system. I invested into dj gear so I can pursue a hobby, not buy it to make money off of it, if I make a couple bucks here and there doing so... well most of the djs in Van know the feeling afterwards :).

Promoters like Attila know how to manipulate DJ's. They know that any DJ loves to play. They know that a DJ loves to get a good time slot. They know how much DJ's love to get the longest set possible. Infact they could go as far as saying that their doing the DJ even more of a favor by advertising their name on 5000 flyers, web banners, and posters. However they made it all backwards. Only a stupid DJ would fall for that shit. Its so ironic that a Dj much rather play at a good time slot then get paid. Some promoters like to play this game for their buck. However truth is if a DJ is good enough to play at a peek time... well they obviously must be good enough to get paid more?

Originally Posted by BenGiovanni

common sense, annoying people dont get too far. At most parties... yes, you will get paid unless specified... Ive gotten paid every event ive played at... (well almost aside from the ones I said ill play for free at)
I walk in expecting to walk out with no money, and I always have the promoter catching me and stuffing 50-150 into my pocket...

If I were a promoter, and some dj I booked came in, rocked the place and tried to leave, id send a check for doing a good job, its called respect.
I was impressed when it happened to me...

Hold on a minute... haven't you been trying to tell me to do it for the music? That I should be thrilled to play even for free, but that your paid at almost every event???
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE EVER HAGGLED AT A PROMOTER FOR MONEY EVER!!! So far ive been ok about what I get. Like I said it depends on how the show does, what their charging, and what kind of job im doing etc. A few times ive even told promoters not to pay me because I know with the amount of ppl that came in at the price they were charging wasn't even enough. But with the money they brought in at pink I have had enough.


We have such a currpt suck up system that DJ's are scared to ask for money, because if they ask for money their worried the promoter wont bother booking them. Reason why Mirika didn't play at Pink.