DJ's who think its ok to continue playing for free

[BenGiovanni]

I find it funny how allot of djs get soo caught up with the djing that they inherit the "I MUST GET PAID" mentality... i know the veterans dont have a prob cuase as wood stated, sign a contract or deposit...either or...life goes on, if you didnt get paid... shit talk, it works, ive seen plenty of one party companies die due to drama...

[dabbler]

id say one of the best experience's i've had being booked by promoters in town would be harp and kamal. they did it up right, money in envelopes before the party even started, and they handed it to me as i walked in the show. much respect to them for that

[Ree Fresh]

Originally Posted by nabs

I like that, lol. ^^

But ya, everyone deserves a chance. The way i see it, Newbs deserve more of a chance than others, because then they can truly see how they feel about DJing, and decide whether they want to continue or not. I LOVE DJING, i rock out at home while doing my practice set. lol.

But ya Wellbelove, im behind ya. I hate it when people get screwed over.

When I first started I wanted a chance. 6 months later I had a better selection of records and improved... I wanted a chance again. Ayear later I changed genras and wanted a chance etc. So pretty much untill I stop trying to improve ill always want a chance and it will always feel like a first gig again.

Originally Posted by BenGiovanni

I appreciate this whole lashing out against promoters and all, ive been pissed and in the same board as you (and plenty others)... but not every gig I get paid for. I got booked to open, I menchioned 3 months before that id play for free... I thought it was ettiquette to be paid atleast gas money to play... but I was wrong... I got nothing and mind you this was not Evolve. Sure you got underpayed, but you got the full amount in the end?

The whole issue was worked out afterwards, I witnessed Dennis brining it up and Attila forgetting to put the extra money with the rest... apparently they only had big bills at the time. Remember promoters deal with allota shit, paying a dj is just one of the MANY things they have to deal with so theyre not gonna remember that they forgot to put 25$ in an envelope when they have (insert amount invested here) to worry about. If it were me in your shoes id try to get ahold of them the next day if the agreed amount wasnt reached and see if they care, then if they have respect, they SHOULD come up to you next time they see you and give you that extra 25$, and if not, then youll have a reason to shit talk a company. Ive heard of a few other companies that dont pay djs accordingly or falsely accuse people.

The way I see it... it is the investors choice on how to deal with it, and the name of the company lies with how the promoter deals with it but you cant change a person when they found a way to make money...
BUT as a dj, BE SMART! I think all djs should be paid, but in the end the dj doesnt have a say unless its been stated on paper, agreed on etc.

Thank you for reconizing some of us getting under paid. I called Atilla a few days later and he of corse never called me back saying he would get back to me. I called him weeks later and he sent me txs saying he didnt think he needed to make it up to me and called me money hungry. I then wrote out a 4-5 paragraph pm to him explaining the situation and why I thought I deserved what I did. He of corse never respinded and no I have not received the rest of my expected pay. I did get the $25 as Dennis took it out of his own wallet.

[thechix0r]

Regardless of whether or not I am a DJ and understand the way that it works, I still think that if you provide a service, you should get paid fairly for it and what it's actually worth. It's ridiculous that tickets, especially for Evolve events, start out at $40-$45 (and of course no normal person can actually get their hands on them once Attila buys his own tickets and then sells them for more) and continually climb to outrageous prices for a hole in the ground venue like the MLC. If the promoters are making that kind of money (regardless of how much it costs to put on the production, because we all know it doesn't cost as much as they are making) they have no excuse but to pay the DJ's well. I've never heard Rhia personally, but all I've ever heard are good things about her. Regardless of whether you're a crappy DJ or not, you are suppose to be paid.

Situations like this though, are only a foreshadow of things to come for certain companies. One day, it's gonna be a big headliner that's gonna get ripped off, and when that happens, no doubt karma will bite back at certain promoters.

So Rhia, although it sucks right now, and I do sympathize with you and having to work with the unfairness that Attila presents to the table... what goes around comes around. In the end, you'll be the one laughing. The points you make about the amount of money that is made off ridiculous ticket prices is disgusting and disturbing (although success shouldn't be, it just should be done fairly) and until something is done to change it, just keep on spinning with your head high and don't drop any ambitions, it will pay off.

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by thechix0r

Situations like this though, are only a foreshadow of things to come for certain companies. One day, it's gonna be a big headliner that's gonna get ripped off, and when that happens, no doubt karma will bite back at certain promoters.

already happened to one of the biggest promoters from the last two years. one reason why they don't throw parties anymore.

[mikey]

Does he owe you money rhiannon?

[REV]

Good thread, but there's two huge points to keep in mind (for the club and party scene)...

- There aren't enough events/slots/parties for even one quarter of the dj's in town to play at regularly. If you are playing 2 times or less a month, its a hobby. With the scene drying up and less events, then maybe get together with other people and do your own small/medium/free/expensive/ripoff/massive shows... Any amount of discussion will not change the fact that there aren't enough slots.

- Since alot of the things that are being brought up here are about the early or late slots... more places are liable to do what the Red Room does, open later! Its better to their bottom-line, and causes a bigger lineup. I know of alot of events that open early strictly to allow young dj's a chance to play, not because they want to open earlier.


In the end, if you don't want the gig, aren't comfortable with it, don't like the promoter, feel they are disrespecting you... Then don't take the gig

Personally all these one hour slots are ridiculous anyways. but again, its mainly due to people showing late, to having too many dj's in town and more then that, alot of dj's who are very hardheaded about their sets sometimes and play the wrong stuff.

No getting paid at all for a $30+ ticket is insane

[Allya]

Originally Posted by thechix0r

It's ridiculous that tickets, especially for Evolve events, start out at $40-$45 (and of course no normal person can actually get their hands on them once Attila buys his own tickets and then sells them for more) and continually climb to outrageous prices for a hole in the ground venue like the MLC.

Sandra, I've asked you in the past if you wanted $40 tix to one of our shows and you're somewhat normal, right? You and Attila were fairly tight at one point and we gave you first crack at tickets before we released them to stores. We have neither the time nor the energy to drop off tickets at 6 store locations in 5 cities (4 now that Abby is out) and then go back to them simply to buy our own tickets back (for a higher price w/ a service charge tacked on) and thereby skew our ticket sales figures. It just wouldn't be worth it for us anyway you spin it, so think it through logically.

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

I then wrote out a 4-5 paragraph pm to him explaining the situation and why I thought I deserved what I did. He of corse never respinded and no I have not received the rest of my expected pay. I did get the $25 as Dennis took it out of his own wallet.

Rhia, Attila no longer posts on these boards, you know that. Ask Myles, the last login was months and months ago.

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

I did get the $25 as Dennis took it out of his own wallet.

Then what more are you complaining about? $25 + $75 = $100, right? If you were so worried about getting paid the "right amount" why not discuss it with us before hand. Honestly, you have no one but yourself to blame for this. We pay our DJs based on skill level, pull, and how pleasant they are to deal with and tbh based on what we've seen and what other DJs and promoters have said to us, you've still got room for improvement. If you choose to take offense to that statement I understand, completely, btw, but I'm just stating the facts.

You called me weeks before the show, requesting a better timeslot, which I gave to you, so you could better showcase your "skill set", I thought you'd be happy with that. You never once spoke to me (or Attila) regarding payment. So we went ahead and budgeted an amount which we thought you were deserving of.

You say you've tried to resolve this issue without bringing it to the boards, why have I never heard about it from you until now? Why also, did you not simply have the forthrightness to confirm or negotiate your rate prior to the show. You can never assume a promoter will read your mind with regard to how much you expect to get paid. Other DJs we contracted for the show made a point to call us and confirm their payrate prior to the event. Bri, for example, explained why we needed to budget extra cash for MC Kay's travel expenses as she'd be coming from the island. We immediately did so as Bri was able to give us a valid reason for the increase.

Further more you left the party with the money that was given to you and never made a fuss about it until later. If there's a problem when I get paid, I don't leave that promoter until I have that cash in hand or have it explained to me why its not there. Rhia, I love you hon, but honestly, what reason should Evolve be forced to pay you more money after the fact?

DJs playing our future shows should take note: Yes, I get annoyed when I get ten calls from each of you regarding your timeslots, I know we can't please everyone, but I don't get annoyed when you call to arrange payment details, if anything I respect you guys more for being business savvy and showing initiative. So if anyone needs to contact/pm/phone me to this regard, please do so, I won't bite and I'm more than willing to discuss it with each of you.

[dabbler]

as i read the posts, it was $50 + $25

[Ryan Ross]

Wow, theres been a lot of good points brought up in this thread. I know all too much what it's like to put out way too much money on records and not be have any income coming back from it. Like has been brought up, a lot of the parties I play at are the smaller ones thrown by friends. In these cases I usually just go by the rule that if they make money, I expect to be paid, if not then I wont cry about it.

However, having played at a fair few massives over the years, you can find that some companies, without a doubt, dont give a shit. Having been billed as a "healiner", playing at peak hours only to not got paid at a collisuem massive charging waaaay too much at the door, I know what its like to feel the shaft.

It's all too fucking shifty. This was part of the reason I was thinking about giving the whole shit it up.... Hopefully things will start to turn around. Just gotta learn who to trust, and who are shifty, greedy motherfuckers.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by DetN8R

DJs playing our future shows should take note: Yes, I get annoyed when I get ten calls from each of you regarding your timeslots, I know we can't please everyone, but I don't get annoyed when you call to arrange payment details, if anything I respect you guys more for being business savvy and showing initiative. So if anyone needs to contact/pm/phone me to this regard, please do so, I won't bite and I'm more than willing to discuss it with each of you.

Who cares what annoys you? Promoting is hard work. And please, do not take for granted that you would not have a show if it wasn't for the DJ's.

[esoter1c]

Like Too Short says "Don't fuck for free."

[Allya]

Originally Posted by miss.myra

Who cares what annoys you? Promoting is hard work. And please, do not take for granted that you would not have a show if it wasn't for the DJ's.

I don't take DJs for granted, by any means. This town is full of DJs who are very pleasant and easy to work with. Explain to me where I said I don't appreciate DJs or what they do, Myra. What I don't appreciate is DJs calling me repeatedly for timeslots weeks in advance of a show when there are more important things that need to be done first. I understand DJs wanting to plan their evenings in advanced, so I try to give as much notice as possible and make notes regarding DJs availability to try and accomodate their requests. Any DJ who has ever dealt with me can attest to that. I was simply expressing my frustration when DJs call repeatedly for timeslots when we're still in the process of organizing them.

[dabbler]

timeslots should be sorted 7 days in advance IMO

[Senior]

Originally Posted by Carrie

if God were a DJ...

I always thought of God more as an emcee but anyway.

My honest take is that WAY to many shity DJ's play out in this city all the time. Should they get paid? No. Should they be playing out? No. They should be in their basement practicing and playing house parties and so on. At the end of the day it's up to the promoters though so what can you do. My suggestion to any DJ out there that does have it going on, is to promote their own shows and book talented line ups.

[Harp]

Originally Posted by dabbler

timeslots should be sorted 7 days in advance IMO

thats the way the unconscious bros do it

If a set fee is agreed upon both parties then in no means should it be changed on how ticket sales, door sales, etc etc for the show do. When we do any show we do pay our locals but there are some that don't get paid but we do compensate them for the next show AND take care of them at every party

[Harp]

Originally Posted by R Wellbelove

Some highlights made by Jay Tripwire:
"umm,personally 75-100$ isnt worth the hearing damage.i dj for a living and if im going to further damage my already questionable ears its probably not going to be for no 75$

i suggest investing in some professional ear plugs

[Big Bank Hank]

DJing like any other industry its all supply and demand. Other industries need workers so much that there is a premium on their labour.

There are too many DJs in this town, and generally which local djs open up for headliners is largely irrelevant to people that buy tickets.

Of course i support local djs to the fullest. But DJing isnt the only industry where there is a huge gap in pay between amateurs and established professionals.

If u had a written contract, that is a different story. There is alot of shady promoters in this town, that is just the reality.

[Harp]

Originally Posted by dabbler

id say one of the best experience's i've had being booked by promoters in town would be harp and kamal. they did it up right, money in envelopes before the party even started, and they handed it to me as i walked in the show. much respect to them for that

thanks for that jay. much respect brutha

[wishbone]

All I can say is, evil deeds get evil rewards...karma sorts itself out.
Just curious due to richard pyra's comments on the first page were sort of...anti-evolve-ish....was mr. pyra coming from a completely free standpoint or did something happen between him and evolve, since I knew him and atilla kind of started the ball rolling together to a degree.

edit:
and for the record, of the handful of DJs I talk to on a regular basis, or read threads about, or whatever, only times i've heard of payment issues was with evolve..

[Richard_Pyra]

Originally Posted by wizzfish

All I can say is, evil deeds get evil rewards...karma sorts itself out.
Just curious due to richard pyra's comments on the first page were sort of...anti-evolve-ish....was mr. pyra coming from a completely free standpoint or did something happen between him and evolve, since I knew him and atilla kind of started the ball rolling together to a degree.

I have no idea how what I said could be construed as "anti-Evolve". I agree with Jay's standpoint, and I have opinions about the scene. If you read through the thread you'll notice I'm speaking from a neutral standpoint. I don't have to sit here and defend anyone or point fingers to have an intelligent discussion about a relevant issue. As for the Evolve thing, there's nothing going on between me and the company. Despite that I have chosen to take a less prominent role in operations (co-founder/promoter -> marketing & design), I haven't had any sort of 'falling out' so to speak with Evolve.

Originally Posted by wizzfish

edit:
and for the record, of the handful of DJs I talk to on a regular basis, or read threads about, or whatever, only times i've heard of payment issues was with evolve..

That's a pretty bold statement.
I could sit here and list off dirt on almost every promoter in town, but I'm not going to out of respect... think about it..

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by Richard_Pyra

That's a pretty bold statement.
I could sit here and list off dirt on almost every promoter in town, but I'm not going to out of respect... think about it..

And I wouldn't doubt you know more promoters and DJs on a deeper level than I do. I know what I know, you know what you know. I don't think either of us are wrong.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by Richard_Pyra

I have no idea how what I said could be construed as "anti-Evolve". I agree with Jay's standpoint, and I have opinions about the scene. If you read through the thread you'll notice I'm speaking from a neutral standpoint. I don't have to sit here and defend anyone or point fingers to have an intelligent discussion about a relevant issue. As for the Evolve thing, there's nothing going on between me and the company. Despite that I have chosen to take a less prominent role in operations (co-founder/promoter -> marketing & design), I haven't had any sort of 'falling out' so to speak with Evolve.

ok, your neutral standpoint was what I was questioning, and what I'm impressed with. I just saw Rhia post a rather bold criticism against the head of evolve, and you congratulated her for bringign up the issue...maybe not for the attack, but you seemed to side with her. That's all I was curious about :)

[MissMarz]

wow.. you'd think i just wasted 20 minutes of my life reading this thread. but honestly. I've learnt alot, I've read many ligit comments.. and I'm pretty curious to see where this will end.

[miss.myra]

Originally Posted by DetN8R

I don't take DJs for granted, by any means. This town is full of DJs who are very pleasant and easy to work with. Explain to me where I said I don't appreciate DJs or what they do, Myra. What I don't appreciate is DJs calling me repeatedly for timeslots weeks in advance of a show when there are more important things that need to be done first. I understand DJs wanting to plan their evenings in advanced, so I try to give as much notice as possible and make notes regarding DJs availability to try and accomodate their requests. Any DJ who has ever dealt with me can attest to that. I was simply expressing my frustration when DJs call repeatedly for timeslots when we're still in the process of organizing them.

Okay, granted it bothers you and that is legit, but getting back to the original point, what does this have to do with how much DJ's are paid in proportion to what is charged for an event and how many people are attending? I don't hear a lot of people complaining about timeslots in this thread. Of course it's annoying for you, and DJ's can probably go on about how much it bothers them getting the shaft for a timeslot, but that is not the topic at hand here.